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  1. #1
    Senior Member Synapse's Avatar
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    Default What is the NF fighting spirit like?

    I'm asking since my fighting spirit has been worn out and trampled on like a torn dish cloth by my family. This idea about the fighting spirit got me wondering the other day could I be more decisive in my action, more succinct in my direction, more confident in my choices with a stronger fighting spirit.

    What does it take to reignite or train the fighting spirit to be healthy?

    What is your fighting spirit like?

    A healthy fighting spirit to me means the will to thrive rather than shrink in the face of adversity and pressure for a better term, to be fearless, the desire to want to achieve, progress, fight for the idea, belief, values in life etc.

    I've heard mention on more than one occasion that what doesn't break you makes you stronger. That to persevere in the face of adversity will strengthen your fighting spirit surely than not?

  2. #2
    a scream in a vortex nanook's Avatar
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    ah, "stength" is such an ambiguous word. people keep telling me i was strong for all sorts of reasons. some of them are just manipulation ("so you dont need help"), some are okay but its still a silly word.

    What does it take to reignite or train the fighting spirit to be healthy?
    well, i think one important thing to understand, is that we are made out of levels. the fighting spirit is a low level and it is frozen down there. so, we are on a higher level and this level wont ever approve of the low level - as we know it, for ethical reasons, until we realize that we have no choice. to put it differently: a level is not to be confused with its intentionality or its particular views. but if it is frozen in the shadow, the intentionality and views are conserved. so if we even manage to look at it for a moment, we will not recognize the level but just its content (intention...) and find that it is unacceptable, and continue to repress it, deliberately. so we need to have some basic trust (understanding), that integrating this level would and could and must purify or dissolve the frozen inappropriate intentionality and views.

    now, a lot of the suppressed matter might be pre-verbal. it is in my case. so psychoanalyzing cant help much. been there done that. it cant be looked at through the minds eye. needs to be experienced. this is where my wisdom ends. and then i think of drugs. like tabernanthe iboga (or ibogain).

    also, the work of alexander lowen is associated with this topic, but i dont know about that
    Last edited by proteanmix; 03-31-2009 at 11:14 AM. Reason: merged posts

  3. #3
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    It's funny you mention it, because I just got out of the hospital, and I was a holy terror while I was there. I'm sure the nurses were never so glad to see anyone leave. Telling a friend about who has known me for many years, she just said she'd never seen that side of me. I have rarely seen that side of me, either. But I fought like a tiger to get my room moved, to get my IV seen to, to make sure my medicine was coming on time ... it doesn't sound like much but I was surprised at how much energy was at my disposal even after coming in from the emergency room. I had a perforation in my intestine and the doctor had said they'd try antibiotics first, hoping it would heal on its own, but if that didn't work, surgery was a real possibility. I did not want abdominal surgery so I was a maniac about making sure I got what I needed, to the point of making a couple of the nurses cry. If I feel like my life is at stake, I'll do anything.

    Last night I was reading about my ESTP shadow and OH yeah, that fit! and I almost posted about the backwash of guilt I was feeling and how I wanted to write everyone in the hospital apology letters -- typical INFJ.


    So for me, what it takes to get my fighting spirit up is to threaten it. And what is it like? It's Cat Woman snapping the whip.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Synapse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nanook View Post
    well, i think one important thing to understand, is that we are made out of levels. the fighting spirit is a low level and it is frozen down there. so, we are on a higher level and this level wont ever approve of the low level - as we know it, for ethical reasons, until we realize that we have no choice. to put it differently: a level is not to be confused with its intentionality or its particular views. but if it is frozen in the shadow, the intentionality and views are conserved. so if we even manage to look at it for a moment, we will not recognize the level but just its content (intention...) and find that it is unacceptable, and continue to repress it, deliberately. so we need to have some basic trust (understanding), that integrating this level would and could and must purify or dissolve the frozen inappropriate intentionality and views.

    now, a lot of the suppressed matter might be pre-verbal. it is in my case. so psychoanalyzing cant help much. been there done that. it cant be looked at through the minds eye. needs to be experienced. this is where my wisdom ends. and then i think of drugs. like tabernanthe iboga (or ibogain).

    also, the work of alexander lowen is associated with this topic, but i dont know about that
    So what your saying is go on drugs.

    Different levels, well when I saw a Chinese herbalist he mentioned to me that I have a low fighting spirit, that my qi the life-process or flow of energy is low. That got me to wonder what I need to be doing to raise the level.

    The fighting spirit might depend on how well developed the will is or the how to exert ones will in pressure situations and stay calm and collected or fall apart.

    In a sense say hypothetically if I were to run a 400 meter race and just at the end when there's five people neck and neck and then I know I can do it but my desire and fatigue wane and instead of building up speed the reverse happens I slow down slightly and others finish the race before me.

    In a relationship perspective, would you go after the person you intend to or do the opposite. Say like the karate kid or even rocky. Against the numbers or status quo to fight for what you want against all odds and have the fighting spirit to move forward past obstacles, to be fearless in the face of hardships and come up with ways to prosper and go after what your want and need.

    I guess I just want to know how the fighting spirit impacts individuals on day to day living or is it just special circumstances that make a person more reactive than normal, say drinking lots of alcohol you do some pretty stupid things but the inhibition goes and while stupid you kind of get fearless too or just doped out without the wit. Survival of the fittest or parental instincts to override the fears for their pride and joy and hell hath no furry like should anything untoward happen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    It's funny you mention it, because I just got out of the hospital, and I was a holy terror while I was there. I'm sure the nurses were never so glad to see anyone leave. Telling a friend about who has known me for many years, she just said she'd never seen that side of me. I have rarely seen that side of me, either. But I fought like a tiger to get my room moved, to get my IV seen to, to make sure my medicine was coming on time ... it doesn't sound like much but I was surprised at how much energy was at my disposal even after coming in from the emergency room. I had a perforation in my intestine and the doctor had said they'd try antibiotics first, hoping it would heal on its own, but if that didn't work, surgery was a real possibility. I did not want abdominal surgery so I was a maniac about making sure I got what I needed, to the point of making a couple of the nurses cry. If I feel like my life is at stake, I'll do anything.

    Last night I was reading about my ESTP shadow and OH yeah, that fit! and I almost posted about the backwash of guilt I was feeling and how I wanted to write everyone in the hospital apology letters -- typical INFJ.


    So for me, what it takes to get my fighting spirit up is to threaten it. And what is it like? It's Cat Woman snapping the whip.
    I can see how fighting for health can be a source to increase the fighting spirit for the motivation. This is like a survival instinct to get what you need in order to heal and get through the situation. A coping mechanism, your inner resources of strength appear and you demand the action of others needed to get well sooner without setbacks. Does it have to be a scary situation to fully realize the fighting spirit and act on it, to be fearless when your health is at stake.

    However over time say if there was cancer would the fighting spirit stay consistently strong or would the fighting spirit decline as the condition deteriorates.
    Last edited by proteanmix; 03-31-2009 at 11:15 AM. Reason: merged posts

  5. #5
    a scream in a vortex nanook's Avatar
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    Different levels, well when I saw a Chinese herbalist he mentioned to me that I have a low fighting spirit, that my qi the life-process or flow of energy is low. That got me to wonder what I need to be doing to raise the level.
    levels correspond with chakras and your chinese guy may have proper (but partial) advice or treatment.

    The fighting spirit might depend on how well developed the will
    "will" is a curious thing, broad topic. you know the 4 matrices that stanislav grof defined? i dunno about mapping just everything to the birth process, but the idea is certainly interesting. four stages of the birth process are defined, not only as past event, but also like a mood at the sky of every day, your current bardo/soul state (if we are stuck in one matrix, it may control our whole life). the matrices are all about fighting or giving up or feeling controlled. maybe stanislav gets the direction of causality wrong. maybe the birth is just the symptomatic representation of our current bardo nature, not its cause.

    In a sense say hypothetically if I were to run a 400 meter race and just at the end when there's five people neck and neck and then I know I can do it but my desire and fatigue wane and instead of building up speed the reverse happens I slow down slightly and others finish the race before me.
    i have this dream where i hang on a cliff and i could cry for help, or try realy hard to climb up, but i don't want attention about my situation and don't want to stand the fear and tension any longer, so i just let myself drop.

    i think i will come back to this topic later ...


    I guess I just want to know how the fighting spirit impacts individuals on day to day living or is it just special circumstances that make a person more reactive than normal, say drinking lots of alcohol you do some pretty stupid things but the inhibition goes and while stupid you kind of get fearless too or just doped out without the wit.
    stress makes us join with dissociated aspects. only because they are dissociated, they are unhealthy or stupid. no one, who is truly successful in life, has major dissociated forces on the lowest levels. we can not rely on situations, to mobilize us. i do in some situations, but its a sick and dangerous thing. like when i don't dare to untie from my parents, cause they make me feel like a traitor. then i want my father to give me an excuse to untie. i mean, a bloody fight. this may free me from physical ties, but only enforce a dependence in my soul. (guilt is dependence and to blame one's guilt on the other man's provocation is dissociation (disintegration) of this dependence, so this dependence is here to stay, frozen in the shadow)

  6. #6
    Senior Member r0wo1's Avatar
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    In my experience my "fighting spirit" in regards to myself is typically almost non-existant. Its when somebody I love and care about is attacked (physically, spiritually or mentally) that I feel my fighting spirit explodes. I typically have little or no control then... I dunno if that is typical for an NF type. And it definitely only relates to somebody in my inner circle.

    In relation to everyday life, Im more worried about whats going on in my world to fight somebody else over their's, unless its impeding upon what I'm up to.
    r0wo1 the destroyer of threads has struck again...

  7. #7
    a scream in a vortex nanook's Avatar
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    yeah i can do all sorts of weird things (go beyond social phobia) for a cause, but nothing for myself (except in so far as loosing out and being lazy is for myself). and by cause i don't mean my personal political delusions, but actually something that i do for someone. simplest example would be nursing. raving Fe. (horrid disintegration of Fi, actually)

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    Senior Member Synapse's Avatar
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    So ah, would NT/ST personalities have a stronger fighting spirit than NF/SF personalities. Would that depend on goal setting or competitive drive, predictive, purposeful, controls hence strive for a better conduit to will.

    Quote Originally Posted by nanook View Post
    "will" is a curious thing, broad topic. you know the 4 matrices that stanislav grof defined? i dunno about mapping just everything to the birth process, but the idea is certainly interesting. four stages of the birth process are defined, not only as past event, but also like a mood at the sky of every day, your current bardo/soul state (if we are stuck in one matrix, it may control our whole life). the matrices are all about fighting or giving up or feeling controlled. maybe stanislav gets the direction of causality wrong. maybe the birth is just the symptomatic representation of our current bardo nature, not its cause.
    Yes will is a curious form, and it is broad but in context to a healthy fighting spirit Id say the will needs to be clear too. Without the proper will to achieve and want and fight for the right, to, paaartay. I couldn't resist.

    Then the fighting spirit is like an extension to the instinctual need to survival which again is much dependant on the will. Say you're out in the desert for days or a rainforest or under a pile of rubble. Would the fighting spirit decode how strong willed you are to survive the ordeal and live another day or succumb to the elements before rescue arrives.

    Would the fighting spirit depend on the emotional state, the regression or progression that creates the blockages or influenced by environmental causation. To be stuck in definition only to the surrounding vibration that influences whether there is any fight left.


    Wow very interesting ideas you have outlined from the bardo nature to the 4 matricies ideas.

    Six Bardos

    1. Shinay bardo (Tibetan): is the first bardo of birth and life. This bardo commences from conception until the last breath, when the mindstream withdraws from the body.
    2. Milam bardo (Tibetan): is the second bardo of the dream state. The Milam Bardo is a subset of the first Bardo. Dream Yoga develops practices to integrate the dream state into Buddhist sadhana.
    3. Samten bardo (Tibetan) is the third bardo of meditation. This bardo is generally only experienced by meditators, though individuals may have spontaneous experience of it. Samten Bardo is a subset of the Shinay Bardo.
    4. Chikkhai bardo (Tibetan): is the fourth bardo of the moment of death. According to tradition, this bardo is held to commence when the outer and inner signs presage that the onset of death is nigh, and continues through the dissolution or transmutation of the Mahabhuta until the external and internal breath has completed.
    5. Chnyid bardo (Tibetan): is the fifth bardo of the luminosity of the true nature which commences after the final 'inner breath' (Sanskrit: prana, vayu; Tibetan: rlung). It is within this Bardo that visions and auditory phenomena occur. In the Dzogchen teachings, these are known as the spontaneously manifesting Thdgal (Tibetan: thod-rgyal) visions. Concomitant to these visions, there is a welling of profound peace and pristine awareness. Sentient beings who have not practiced during their lived experience and/or who do not recognize the clear light (Tibetan: od gsal) at the moment of death are usually deluded throughout the fifth bardo of luminosity.
    6. Sidpai bardo (Tibetan): is the sixth bardo of becoming or transmigration. This bardo endures until the inner-breath commences in the new transmigrating form determined by the 'karmic seeds' within the storehouse consciousness.

    Maybe it is.

  9. #9
    morose bourgeoisie
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    What are you passionate about? You must have something to fight for or against for that spirit to gain strength.

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    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nebbykoo View Post
    What are you passionate about? You must have something to fight for or against for that spirit to gain strength.
    THAT is exactly right - nothing is stronger or more filled with drive and spirit than an NF on FIRE with a mission! NOTHING!

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