• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

[ENFP] Are NFs overly non offensive ?

Stanton Moore

morose bourgeoisie
Joined
Mar 4, 2009
Messages
3,900
MBTI Type
INFP
I offend people a lot unintentionally too. I think it's the Te or something. I've been told I can seem abrasive, but I have a feeling this is when I am being defensive. Or it's people misreading my shyness & introversion as being stand-offish and rude. I also am less inclined to observe certain social niceties that seem phony to me.




Definitely agree with this.

NFPs may not be refusing to accept supposed "hard logic", but the person trying to make a point may not realize they haven't made it as clearly as they imagine they have. I notice people who love to argue and consider themselves "rational" are often blind to the big picture. They get stuck on "facts" and don't take into account human emotions and perspectives. Everything isn't black and white, and I think NFPs see that.
When we encounter these people, who feel they've successfully torn down our beliefs, we're probably internally rolling our eyes because we see their view as very limited, and we've lost all interest in explaining ourselves to someone who has blinders on.

NFPs can argue a point quite well, because as I brought out in my other post, we often use persuasion to appeal to people. It's a lot more subtle & effective because no one feels they are being attacked.

Like nebbykoo says, expending that energy to argue our viewpoint is often not worth it. Why argue with someone who is dead set in their ways? What do you accomplish?

This is a great point. Other people can posite something as perfectly clear and logical, but it misses the entire human component, and to me, the answer is incomplete because of this.
My sister is this kind of logical thinker (she is insensed by other people not seeing how simple everything thing is!), but often needs to hear what she is missing through her simple, logical conclusions...
And then I have to point out how she is not being logical at all, but only rationalising her own preconceptions about the situation.
 

Stanton Moore

morose bourgeoisie
Joined
Mar 4, 2009
Messages
3,900
MBTI Type
INFP
It's more like how blackcat put it, theres a difference between telling someone in a sensitive way and "sugar coating" it

In a way they are essentially BSing you

Example Question: "Have I gained weight?"

Sensitive answer: Why do you ask? Do you think you need to? Are you still doing your exercise and diet that you were telling me about?

Find out WHY they asked first, its actually important... if they ask for your opinion still after asking them that (which I doubt because I bet they were just looking for support) then tell them the truth and it will go down a whole lot better after they know you've talked about an actual solution to loosing their weight rather than a blunt... yeah you're fat and all hope is gone.

Blunt answer: honestly, you could loose some kgs... heres how... and what works for me... blah blah blah

Sugar Coating answer: Don't worry you're beautiful (notice how being pretty has nothing to do with the original question)

After they say that they follow up with a distracting questing such as "btw are we still going to that party tonight?"


I guess it boils down to whether or not you think that conveying 'the truth' is the most important service you can provide.
I see 'truth' as relative many times. Most of the subjects we think we are being objective about ("Have I gained weight?") are just opinions or subjective valuations that don't really matter, and the answer to such a question has a lot more about your relationship to that person, AND your conception of what constitutes a truthful answer based on what you think you know.
the truth is that my opinion of someone's weight is not relavant to anything except the relationship, and on that ground, the answer has to be considered carefully.
This is why brutal honesty is ineffective and short-sighted.
 

Laurie

Was E.laur
Joined
Jan 3, 2009
Messages
6,072
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
7w6
Can someone please fix this thread title. What does it mean?
 

entropie

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 24, 2008
Messages
16,767
MBTI Type
entp
Enneagram
783
More like: "Are NFs overly offensive?" :D
 

Unique

New member
Joined
Oct 14, 2008
Messages
1,702
Agree

But in some cases, such as...



...they might really be asking a different question, such as.. oh, "Do you still find me attractive?" But then they might really be asking the question you've posed.

It really takes knowing what the other person is trying to communicate to you in order to form an appropriate response.

No reason why you cant tell them you find them attractive as well as answer the question... 2 birds.. 1 stone? I hate that expression... surely there is a less cruel version haha
 
G

garbage

Guest
No reason why you cant tell them you find them attractive as well as answer the question... 2 birds.. 1 stone? I hate that expression... surely there is a less cruel version haha

True. Such a delivery is all about tact and personal understanding.

Unfortunately, sometimes an answer can also communicate something that isn't intended because of the way the other person receives it, too.

The direct statement of "you've gained a little bit of weight, but I still find you attractive" could be misinterpreted as, for example, "You've gotten fat, and here's a second thing I'm saying that's just trying to make you not get pissed off at me." :doh:

There's a way to say it without communicating that to the person in question, but the appropriate language needed tends to vary from individual to individual :doh: :doh:

I do find that, as two people get to know each other better, direct communication tends to become easier because they already know each other's buttons and how to talk to each other. I do agree that NFs can be among the worst at it, though :)
 

Unique

New member
Joined
Oct 14, 2008
Messages
1,702
True. Such a delivery is all about tact and personal understanding.

Unfortunately, sometimes an answer can also communicate something that isn't intended because of the way the other person receives it, too.

The direct statement of "you've gained a little bit of weight, but I still find you attractive" could be misinterpreted as, for example, "You've gotten fat, and here's a second thing I'm saying that's just trying to make you not get pissed off at me." :doh:

There's a way to say it without communicating that to the person in question, but the appropriate language needed tends to vary from individual to individual :doh: :doh:

I do find that, as two people get to know each other better, direct communication tends to become easier because they already know each other's buttons and how to talk to each other. I do agree that NFs can be among the worst at it, though :)

I was trying to find some middle ground, saying both things isn't what I would do, I was just brainstorming.

If I really was asked this question I would say something like what I stated before "Why do you ask? Do you think you need to?"
 

Tiltyred

New member
Joined
Dec 1, 2008
Messages
4,322
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
468
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Do NFs go out of their way not to offend?

Yes. I wish everybody else would, too.
 

antireconciler

it's a nuclear device
Joined
Apr 29, 2007
Messages
866
MBTI Type
Intj
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
so
I have to feel like I'm being dominated and suppressed in some respect before I'll lash out, and I have to already feel less qualified and inferior to the person in the same respect, where the respect is a characteristic I prize about myself because it brings me a feeling of having provided value, something to offer.

These conditions have to be met simultaneously ... but in the end I'm probably much more of a hot-head than average. Still, I've never tried to destroy belief systems because beliefs AT ALL are a mode of connection for me. If someone has beliefs I can comprehend, they suddenly seem much more human to me. It's hard to feel inferior to someone who has a belief system to you, especially if you disagree with it or can anticipate its flaws.

So, maybe, once you CAN disable someone's belief system, the desire to attack it through it vanishes.

If you're breathing, someone, somewhere is offended.

Haha, I wouldn't mind. Someone so much as reacting to you has a nice feel to it, even if it's about how much you suck.
 

FinalFrontier89

New member
Joined
May 26, 2009
Messages
18
MBTI Type
ENFP
I think most people's belief system has something worthy about it, or is at least founded on good principles. Even if there are some aspects I disagree with, I won't tear apart their whole belief system, just those specific bits.

However, some belief systems I find completely amoral and supporting of injustice. If that is the case, I will gladly tear it apart.
 

Thalassa

Permabanned
Joined
May 3, 2009
Messages
25,183
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
sx
I attack Libertarians all of the time, and that's a belief system. But I'm intent on learning not to, which may be an NF trait - to want to further learn to tolerate others in better ways.
 

Silent Stars

New member
Joined
Oct 22, 2008
Messages
410
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
9w1
I actually rather enjoy ruthlessly tearing to pieces any inconsistency or illogical parts of other people's reasoning and beliefs. However, I only do this if they are either a) personally attacking me (which happens quite often, as a great deal of people have problems with the way I think), or b) just plain freaking stupid and need a figurative slap in the face. I don't do option b very much, but if I see an easy opportunity to do so, without taking much time, then I do it.

Otherwise, I generally don't bother with it, as the vast majority of people who don't agree with me will never be open to what I say anyways, so I just don't waste my time, as my words would be falling on deaf ears.
 

blomiki

New member
Joined
Sep 28, 2009
Messages
31
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
-
An arguing ENFP

I used to be extremely argumentative. I spent time in chat rooms discrediting racism as a 14-year-old... writing long emails to people to further drive my point home! Looking back, you guys are right, I was attacking their beliefs and that approach probably won't help.

My father says I have an emotional instead of rational response to criticism and I'm glad to see I'm not the only one. I do feel personally attacked if people criticise my beliefs, and I have learned rather to "run away and let live".

HOWEVER.

People see how I take things to heart and how I'm working at following through on the commitments that I consider important. If you have earned the respect of someone who differs from you in some crucial way - if your ENFP talent for making friends has worked in your favour - you are given a very cool opportunity.

Once I have won their respect and friendship, I find that my value-based statements, even those in conflict with theirs, start carrying weight.

I believe the biggest impact I can make is not from debating - which makes life easier since I struggle not to get passionate and irrational in close-to-home debates. It is from winning people's respect than then demonstrating why I believe what I believe.

In fact, I need to watch out not to make friends with someone just because the prospect of influencing their opinions is so exciting. Any other ENFPs know the feeling?
 
Top