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  1. #41
    morose bourgeoisie
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    I offend people a lot unintentionally too. I think it's the Te or something. I've been told I can seem abrasive, but I have a feeling this is when I am being defensive. Or it's people misreading my shyness & introversion as being stand-offish and rude. I also am less inclined to observe certain social niceties that seem phony to me.




    Definitely agree with this.

    NFPs may not be refusing to accept supposed "hard logic", but the person trying to make a point may not realize they haven't made it as clearly as they imagine they have. I notice people who love to argue and consider themselves "rational" are often blind to the big picture. They get stuck on "facts" and don't take into account human emotions and perspectives. Everything isn't black and white, and I think NFPs see that.
    When we encounter these people, who feel they've successfully torn down our beliefs, we're probably internally rolling our eyes because we see their view as very limited, and we've lost all interest in explaining ourselves to someone who has blinders on.

    NFPs can argue a point quite well, because as I brought out in my other post, we often use persuasion to appeal to people. It's a lot more subtle & effective because no one feels they are being attacked.

    Like nebbykoo says, expending that energy to argue our viewpoint is often not worth it. Why argue with someone who is dead set in their ways? What do you accomplish?
    This is a great point. Other people can posite something as perfectly clear and logical, but it misses the entire human component, and to me, the answer is incomplete because of this.
    My sister is this kind of logical thinker (she is insensed by other people not seeing how simple everything thing is!), but often needs to hear what she is missing through her simple, logical conclusions...
    And then I have to point out how she is not being logical at all, but only rationalising her own preconceptions about the situation.

  2. #42
    morose bourgeoisie
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukepd View Post
    It's more like how blackcat put it, theres a difference between telling someone in a sensitive way and "sugar coating" it

    In a way they are essentially BSing you

    Example Question: "Have I gained weight?"

    Sensitive answer: Why do you ask? Do you think you need to? Are you still doing your exercise and diet that you were telling me about?

    Find out WHY they asked first, its actually important... if they ask for your opinion still after asking them that (which I doubt because I bet they were just looking for support) then tell them the truth and it will go down a whole lot better after they know you've talked about an actual solution to loosing their weight rather than a blunt... yeah you're fat and all hope is gone.

    Blunt answer: honestly, you could loose some kgs... heres how... and what works for me... blah blah blah

    Sugar Coating answer: Don't worry you're beautiful (notice how being pretty has nothing to do with the original question)

    After they say that they follow up with a distracting questing such as "btw are we still going to that party tonight?"

    I guess it boils down to whether or not you think that conveying 'the truth' is the most important service you can provide.
    I see 'truth' as relative many times. Most of the subjects we think we are being objective about ("Have I gained weight?") are just opinions or subjective valuations that don't really matter, and the answer to such a question has a lot more about your relationship to that person, AND your conception of what constitutes a truthful answer based on what you think you know.
    the truth is that my opinion of someone's weight is not relavant to anything except the relationship, and on that ground, the answer has to be considered carefully.
    This is why brutal honesty is ineffective and short-sighted.

  3. #43
    Was E.laur Laurie's Avatar
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    Can someone please fix this thread title. What does it mean?

  4. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elaur View Post
    Can someone please fix this thread title. What does it mean?
    "Are NFs overly non-offensive?"
    "The purpose of life is to be defeated by greater and greater things." - Rainer Maria Rilke

  5. #45
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    More like: "Are NFs overly offensive?"
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by greed View Post
    Agree

    But in some cases, such as...



    ...they might really be asking a different question, such as.. oh, "Do you still find me attractive?" But then they might really be asking the question you've posed.

    It really takes knowing what the other person is trying to communicate to you in order to form an appropriate response.
    No reason why you cant tell them you find them attractive as well as answer the question... 2 birds.. 1 stone? I hate that expression... surely there is a less cruel version haha

  7. #47
    loopy Ulaes's Avatar
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    uhh.. until you upset them?

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukepd View Post
    No reason why you cant tell them you find them attractive as well as answer the question... 2 birds.. 1 stone? I hate that expression... surely there is a less cruel version haha
    True. Such a delivery is all about tact and personal understanding.

    Unfortunately, sometimes an answer can also communicate something that isn't intended because of the way the other person receives it, too.

    The direct statement of "you've gained a little bit of weight, but I still find you attractive" could be misinterpreted as, for example, "You've gotten fat, and here's a second thing I'm saying that's just trying to make you not get pissed off at me."

    There's a way to say it without communicating that to the person in question, but the appropriate language needed tends to vary from individual to individual

    I do find that, as two people get to know each other better, direct communication tends to become easier because they already know each other's buttons and how to talk to each other. I do agree that NFs can be among the worst at it, though

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by greed View Post
    True. Such a delivery is all about tact and personal understanding.

    Unfortunately, sometimes an answer can also communicate something that isn't intended because of the way the other person receives it, too.

    The direct statement of "you've gained a little bit of weight, but I still find you attractive" could be misinterpreted as, for example, "You've gotten fat, and here's a second thing I'm saying that's just trying to make you not get pissed off at me."

    There's a way to say it without communicating that to the person in question, but the appropriate language needed tends to vary from individual to individual

    I do find that, as two people get to know each other better, direct communication tends to become easier because they already know each other's buttons and how to talk to each other. I do agree that NFs can be among the worst at it, though
    I was trying to find some middle ground, saying both things isn't what I would do, I was just brainstorming.

    If I really was asked this question I would say something like what I stated before "Why do you ask? Do you think you need to?"

  10. #50
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    Do NFs go out of their way not to offend?

    Yes. I wish everybody else would, too.

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