User Tag List

First 910111213 Last

Results 101 to 110 of 122

  1. #101
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w8
    Socionics
    ENTp
    Posts
    6,387

    Default

    Ergophobe, I was that woman you described many times before... I agree with Synarch and Femme. The issue of control is a big one. I am often paralyzed by the thought of potential (uncontrollable) emotions that threaten to destroy the life that I have built for myself. If it has to happen, it has to be on my terms. A man cannot come on strong with me because it feels like he wants to take something away from me. I realize now that he may potentially be adding something to me, but I still need lots of space and autonomy. Once the relationship is established, I want to hear from my bf every day, sometimes for hours. But in the beginning, we have to move s-l-o-w-l-y. Baby steps.
    Good luck.

  2. #102
    Member g_vartan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    MBTI
    ENFJ
    Posts
    61

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ergophobe View Post
    That was quite enlightening. It's such a different perspective. It's not that I would take the adventure lightly, not at all. There's a reason I'm suffering a little now - I take all my adventures seriously. But you are right, in matters of the heart, once convinced of the potential (it's rare that happens), I will jump in and take the risk. In that sense, I am far less deliberate once the initial screening is done. The ENFP in me says "it feels so good, how could this go wrong?". Clearly, the logical consequences could be considered more fully. I appreciate the NT input in that regard.
    I've been in a similar situation (but instead, INTP-ENFJ). We both acknowledged how truly special we felt towards one another - yet he chose not to pursue it. He analyzed the situation (distance/worked together) and felt that the chances of long-term success were slim (this was coming from the same guy who engaged me in looong discussions about kids, family, marriage, etc. the first month we were together). But for an ENFJ like me, his "logic" just didn't make sense. It took us this long to find one another -- why should we let this slip away (I would have moved heaven and earth to make it happen -- totally ENFJ of me ). Plus love is one that can't be modeled or predicted. It is meant to be experienced -- and hence, has inherent risks. It needs to be pursued and at least tried. I don't want to have any regrets in life -- the "what if". I wanted to try, he didn't.

    My INTPs biggest fear is getting hurt -- and to try and not succeed. He was overwhelmed with a lot of the feelings he had for me. It was intense. He couldn't process it well. He said, "I don't want us at the end to break-up and think we didn't work out because *we* are not perfect for one another....its more that our current situation will not allow us to be successful." I've never heard "such logic" before -- it sounded like something that a (SJ) guy would say to gently say to a girl that "I'm not too into you." In addition, he gave me a lot of confusing signals -- he was rather hot / cold. But throughout my confusion, I always believed deep inside he felt what I was feeling too -- but due to our different backgrounds and personality types, I was better equipped to handle it (feelings) and nurture it and he wasn't and was scared -- and I have to respect that.

    And that's my point. We have to respect that. It might not make sense for us their "logic" sometimes, but we can only attempt to understand -- we all have our own individual "truths". I have come to accept the cliche that "everything happens for a reason." Sometimes we want to will something into happening, but relationships isn't one where we should do this. So my $0.02 is that to just respect your NT's decision. Perhaps time will be your wisest counselor. Maybe by giving your NT space, you and NT will end up in a place that's much better for you both in the long run.

  3. #103
    Pose! Salt n' pepper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Enneagram
    8w9
    Posts
    2,008

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    Oh totally, when I do get angry. And if that happens you really, really, did something terribly wrong. I can fire words like cannonballs, without hesitation or remorse. Straight in your face! Bring on the hurt.

    I've only once been in a physical fight and that was alcohol related. I doubt I'd ever get physical in any fight in any situation, unless it's in self defense though.
    In my experience. If and when an INTP gets really worked up about something, he has a hard time finding words that fits his emotional state. He seems to find it difficult to express that anger and frustration, in words, so he just throws a huge tantrum – sort of like a four year old, with the screaming, the hitting of walls, slamming of doors and outbursts of all kinds of emotions.

    After the tantrum, he’ll usually go into a separate room, shut the door and try to identify his feelings and then put them into words so that he can fully assess the situation. After that, he’s OK and sometimes he’ll talk to you about it, and sometimes you’ll have to ask him about it and he’ll answer you in a systematical and logical manner.

    Like Skyward put it:” The emotion he felt turned into data”.

    If you don’t let them go through this process, you have two options:
    1. Run for your life, women and children first.
    2. Have some kind of tranquilizer, and a good aim.

  4. #104
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w8
    Socionics
    ENTp
    Posts
    6,387

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by g_vartan View Post
    He analyzed the situation (distance/worked together) and felt that the chances of long-term success were slim (this was coming from the same guy who engaged me in looong discussions about kids, family, marriage, etc. the first month we were together). But for an ENFJ like me, his "logic" just didn't make sense. It took us this long to find one another -- why should we let this slip away (I would have moved heaven and earth to make it happen -- totally ENFJ of me ). Plus love is one that can't be modeled or predicted. It is meant to be experienced -- and hence, has inherent risks. It needs to be pursued and at least tried. I don't want to have any regrets in life -- the "what if". I wanted to try, he didn't.

    My INTPs biggest fear is getting hurt -- and to try and not succeed.
    I'm sorry that you experienced that. I can only imagine that he broke up with you and allowed you to feel this pain, to save you from a further, deeper pain later. This is how I rationalize breaking up with someone, even when it seems good on the surface. If there's anything that is truly unsatisfying, and I know in my heart and head I can't get past it, then I let that person go. To me, this is better than the alternative, even though you don't see the logic in it. That is logical to me. It is not logical to me, however, to let just the emotion of "love" rule me.

    This is often what scares me about F types - I don't believe they are capable of taking their commitments seriously. It seems as if they just run around looking for their next "fix" of emotions, leading me to believe that they would just leave me in a moment's notice if they found "love" with someone else. It's an addiction to a feeling, but it ignores responsibility and practicality. Of course, these are all assumptions and stereotypes, but I've seen it happen so many times when my friends find a new "soulmate" and agonize to me about if they should leave their current spouse or not. As harsh as it is to say, it's what I truly feel: I think people like that have a weak character and they disgust me. Ouch, I know. But all I can give is my honesty. I know this does not apply to every case and there are many reasons why relationships fail, but fickleness of the heart is one thing I cannot stand.

    I don't know this person and can't say for sure what he was thinking. I just wanted for you to be able to see into my mind, because that may help you find some closure with this whole thing.

    I recently ended a decade long back and forth tug-of-war with someone. He just didn't understand why I couldn't commit to him if I loved him as much as I did. And I do love him. But I just didn't think he was a viable candidate for my long term happiness. Happiness for me is emotional stability and common interests/goals (maybe that's why the future talk threw you off? I do that also, but more to probe about viability, not to suggest that it will come to fruition...) Emotional stability seems impossible with someone who generates intensity in me. It's unsettling. To know that everyday I walk through the door, I won't know what to expect. My life is so chaotic and random, my home life needs to be stable and comforting and reassuring - not a rollercoaster.

    I never take my commitments lightly, which is why I rarely make them.

    Again, don't know if any of this applies to him, but hopefully you can pick through this and find some use for it somewhere down the line....

  5. #105
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    332

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    I'm sorry that you experienced that. I can only imagine that he broke up with you and allowed you to feel this pain, to save you from a further, deeper pain later. This is how I rationalize breaking up with someone, even when it seems good on the surface. If there's anything that is truly unsatisfying, and I know in my heart and head I can't get past it, then I let that person go. To me, this is better than the alternative, even though you don't see the logic in it. That is logical to me. It is not logical to me, however, to let just the emotion of "love" rule me.

    This is often what scares me about F types - I don't believe they are capable of taking their commitments seriously. It seems as if they just run around looking for their next "fix" of emotions, leading me to believe that they would just leave me in a moment's notice if they found "love" with someone else. It's an addiction to a feeling, but it ignores responsibility and practicality. Of course, these are all assumptions and stereotypes, but I've seen it happen so many times when my friends find a new "soulmate" and agonize to me about if they should leave their current spouse or not. As harsh as it is to say, it's what I truly feel: I think people like that have a weak character and they disgust me. Ouch, I know. But all I can give is my honesty. I know this does not apply to every case and there are many reasons why relationships fail, but fickleness of the heart is one thing I cannot stand.

    I don't know this person and can't say for sure what he was thinking. I just wanted for you to be able to see into my mind, because that may help you find some closure with this whole thing.

    I recently ended a decade long back and forth tug-of-war with someone. He just didn't understand why I couldn't commit to him if I loved him as much as I did. And I do love him. But I just didn't think he was a viable candidate for my long term happiness. Happiness for me is emotional stability and common interests/goals (maybe that's why the future talk threw you off? I do that also, but more to probe about viability, not to suggest that it will come to fruition...) Emotional stability seems impossible with someone who generates intensity in me. It's unsettling. To know that everyday I walk through the door, I won't know what to expect. My life is so chaotic and random, my home life needs to be stable and comforting and reassuring - not a rollercoaster.

    I never take my commitments lightly, which is why I rarely make them.

    Again, don't know if any of this applies to him, but hopefully you can pick through this and find some use for it somewhere down the line....
    I really liked how you put this. I have a tendency to want to protect my feelings at all costs. I will put myself into a hurtful situation now, by leaving the person I really care about, just to avoid it being worse down the line. I know my emotions don't run any deepers than anyone elses, but when I'm in the moment and feeling them so intensely, it's hard to not go into self-preservation mode. It has to be a matter of finding that person of ultimate trust, who will just make me feel like it's all okay. It's scary when you work naturally in a world of logic and where you rationalize everything, just to be hit by what you can't really easily or logicly put into perspective. I had a friend once whom I greatly cared about. I grew to have some pretty strong intense feelings for him, actually. I let it drag on for 5 monthes until I finally said something. He thanked me but turned me down. Where some people can naturally just say "oh well" to that, the hurt of it made me not want to get out of bed for 3 days, until I was able to understand why he would have the perspective that he had. Because of I know how that pain felt, it makes me hesitant to just jump in there again.

    INTP's analyze the hell out of things from every angle before they ever open their mouths. We feel the pain of every situation before hand. If we think it's gonna be too much to handle, we will cut our losses and move on... or at least this INTP does.

  6. #106
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w8
    Socionics
    ENTp
    Posts
    6,387

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RuffledINTP View Post
    I really liked how you put this. I have a tendency to want to protect my feelings at all costs. I will put myself into a hurtful situation now, by leaving the person I really care about, just to avoid it being worse down the line. I know my emotions don't run any deepers than anyone elses, but when I'm in the moment and feeling them so intensely, it's hard to not go into self-preservation mode. It has to be a matter of finding that person of ultimate trust, who will just make me feel like it's all okay. It's scary when you work naturally in a world of logic and where you rationalize everything, just to be hit by what you can't really easily or logicly put into perspective. I had a friend once whom I greatly cared about. I grew to have some pretty strong intense feelings for him, actually. I let it drag on for 5 monthes until I finally said something. He thanked me but turned me down. Where some people can naturally just say "oh well" to that, the hurt of it made me not want to get out of bed for 3 days, until I was able to understand why he would have the perspective that he had. Because of I know how that pain felt, it makes me hesitant to just jump in there again.

    INTP's analyze the hell out of things from every angle before they ever open their mouths. We feel the pain of every situation before hand. If we think it's gonna be too much to handle, we will cut our losses and move on... or at least this INTP does.
    Damn, I feel ya on this. It takes me a very long time to make a decision, but when I do it's for real. And it's only because I weigh every possible circumstance and consequence first. All my friends think I am so spontaneous, and I am to a degree, but each step is measured carefully and rationally - even if it happens instantaneously in the blink of an eye. I couldn't turn it off it I tried.

    And yes, I don't pretend to have stronger feelings than anyone else either. But I don't have a lot of practice with having my emotions at the surface, so it hits me like a ton of bricks when they appear. So I understand being paralyzed by that "no". I can totally see myself in that situation.

  7. #107
    Member g_vartan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    MBTI
    ENFJ
    Posts
    61

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    I'm sorry that you experienced that. I can only imagine that he broke up with you and allowed you to feel this pain, to save you from a further, deeper pain later. This is how I rationalize breaking up with someone, even when it seems good on the surface. If there's anything that is truly unsatisfying, and I know in my heart and head I can't get past it, then I let that person go. To me, this is better than the alternative, even though you don't see the logic in it. That is logical to me. It is not logical to me, however, to let just the emotion of "love" rule me.

    This is often what scares me about F types - I don't believe they are capable of taking their commitments seriously. It seems as if they just run around looking for their next "fix" of emotions, leading me to believe that they would just leave me in a moment's notice if they found "love" with someone else. It's an addiction to a feeling, but it ignores responsibility and practicality. Of course, these are all assumptions and stereotypes, but I've seen it happen so many times when my friends find a new "soulmate" and agonize to me about if they should leave their current spouse or not. As harsh as it is to say, it's what I truly feel: I think people like that have a weak character and they disgust me. Ouch, I know. But all I can give is my honesty. I know this does not apply to every case and there are many reasons why relationships fail, but fickleness of the heart is one thing I cannot stand.

    I don't know this person and can't say for sure what he was thinking. I just wanted for you to be able to see into my mind, because that may help you find some closure with this whole thing.

    I recently ended a decade long back and forth tug-of-war with someone. He just didn't understand why I couldn't commit to him if I loved him as much as I did. And I do love him. But I just didn't think he was a viable candidate for my long term happiness. Happiness for me is emotional stability and common interests/goals (maybe that's why the future talk threw you off? I do that also, but more to probe about viability, not to suggest that it will come to fruition...) Emotional stability seems impossible with someone who generates intensity in me. It's unsettling. To know that everyday I walk through the door, I won't know what to expect. My life is so chaotic and random, my home life needs to be stable and comforting and reassuring - not a rollercoaster.

    I never take my commitments lightly, which is why I rarely make them.

    Again, don't know if any of this applies to him, but hopefully you can pick through this and find some use for it somewhere down the line....
    Thank you for your very thoughtful response. I think I have to re-read it a couple more times before I can really fully digest it.

    I guess, my initial question is, what does this "protectiveness" really accomplish? Is it just a way of saying, "I don't want to grow with you."

    It reminds of someone's posts at TypC/INTPc:

    The first relationships we have would logically be the least likely to succeed - because they are the ones in which you are the least mature due to inexperience. No matter how long you wait for that perfect piece of the puzzle to come along - it isn't just about them, it's about you as well! Turning down what you would consider "risks" (is it not always a risk - one of the greatest there is?) does not help you grow and it does not prepare you for the future.

    Now, some people here think that extroverts and people that generally put their hopes and feelings on the line for someone else more frequently, are actually more shallow and careless than introverts. I'd say absolutely not, those people are learning more than we could ever understand while clinging to some kind of false purity, trying to keep our hearts intact for the "right moment". Actually you are not preserving anything - there is nothing to preserve if you are a clean slate. You are just postponing your development and justifying that in different ways.

    It's concerning for me when I hear people tell others to just wait - that it's "okay" to be selective. Especially when what we are calling "selectivity" is actually just the perfect excuse for an INTP to live within the boundaries of his insecurities without having to step outside his comfort zone. Let's get our terms straight, we aren't victims of selectivity, we're victims of fear, insecurity, hesitation, self-sabotage and social anxiety. Not all INTPs are like that, that's simply what could happen, and what is at the root of the hopelessness transmitted in many threads on this board.

    I think one of the best benefits of a relationship is its ability to catapult someone into a higher plane -- one where they wouldn't have been able to orginally achieve on their own. I'm not perfect -- I am painfully aware of my strengths, but moreover, my weaknesses. But I wanted to embark on that joint journey with him 'cause I think together we are so much more.

    I think its a misnomer to think that "feelings" for NFs are easy. It isn't -- especially since I only let the full me (deepest thoughts/feelings/desires) out to *very* few people. For INTPs, its like allowing someone else into your mental garden where its very personal and very private. Only a special few are allowed. For ENFJs, its the same thing, but its an emotional garden.

    And in the process of collecting "data", I think some INTPs (mine's) do not realize the emotional toll it takes. I trusted him with those personal information/"garden". I allowed myself to imagine that joint future. This sounds really crude, but the only word I can find to describe the feeling is 'emotional rape' -- i.e., data/knowledge harvested, inputted into some INTP formula/equation, and findings generated -- and next steps executed. There are no magic formulas for relationships. There are no guarantees for success. All I can promise is that I will try my best to be the best person I can be and to love someone to the best of my abilities. Relationships aren't 1+1=2; its more like chemistry where '+' is really what matters...the whole is greater than the sum of its parts....and the '+' can't occur if you don't try.

    I dunno. I don't think I'll ever know the complete picture. In the end, I know I am wiser from having experienced it. But from the other side of story, I guess the thing that is painful is that for the person who is the NF, it makes them feel as if they are asking to be loved -- which is a rather a humbling and painful thing to occur as we give so much of ourselves to others, particularly loved one. Don't we deserve it back? Perhaps I just wasn't lucky this time.

  8. #108
    resonance entropie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    MBTI
    entp
    Enneagram
    783
    Posts
    16,761

    Default

    Use porn ! xD
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  9. #109
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w8
    Socionics
    ENTp
    Posts
    6,387

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by g_vartan View Post
    I guess, my initial question is, what does this "protectiveness" really accomplish? Is it just a way of saying, "I don't want to grow with you."
    No, that's not what I'm saying at all. You know very well that some things are draining and some things are comforting. It is natural to want the comfort. If you take the opposite route, you may grow but you also may just end up angry and bitter. I, personally, evaluate all my odds and make my decision. Sometimes it works out well, other times not. But the result is always growth.

    I had no idea the collecting data was such a big deal - that's an eye opener. I don't know, I never saw it as a personal investment. Maybe it just hurt because you had more expectations? Or maybe it was the way he presented himself, or led you on? Either way, I will try not to do that to people now.

    Quote Originally Posted by g_vartan View Post
    But from the other side of story, I guess the thing that is painful is that for the person who is the NF, it makes them feel as if they are asking to be loved -- which is a rather a humbling and painful thing to occur as we give so much of ourselves to others, particularly loved one. Don't we deserve it back? Perhaps I just wasn't lucky this time.
    Of course you deserve love! And that's the point - if he felt he couldn't give it to you for whatever reason, he wanted to let you find someone who could. It's better for you to be with a man that can (and wants to) give you what you need, anyway. There are so many men who will gladly wrap you up and steal you away. Don't worry. I know this is difficult, though.

  10. #110
    violaine
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    I'm sorry that you experienced that. I can only imagine that he broke up with you and allowed you to feel this pain, to save you from a further, deeper pain later. This is how I rationalize breaking up with someone, even when it seems good on the surface. If there's anything that is truly unsatisfying, and I know in my heart and head I can't get past it, then I let that person go. To me, this is better than the alternative, even though you don't see the logic in it. That is logical to me. It is not logical to me, however, to let just the emotion of "love" rule me.

    This is often what scares me about F types - I don't believe they are capable of taking their commitments seriously. It seems as if they just run around looking for their next "fix" of emotions, leading me to believe that they would just leave me in a moment's notice if they found "love" with someone else. It's an addiction to a feeling, but it ignores responsibility and practicality. Of course, these are all assumptions and stereotypes, but I've seen it happen so many times when my friends find a new "soulmate" and agonize to me about if they should leave their current spouse or not. As harsh as it is to say, it's what I truly feel: I think people like that have a weak character and they disgust me. Ouch, I know. But all I can give is my honesty. I know this does not apply to every case and there are many reasons why relationships fail, but fickleness of the heart is one thing I cannot stand.
    I am zeroing in on a point. I think taking relationships seriously has everything to do with personal values and very little to do with being an 'F type' or not. The way you've described how/why you break up ultimately doesn't sound all that different in the end to what you take issue with with 'F types' if it's done regularly. Take for example those people who are addicted to personal freedom in place of the rush of love/infatuation... the behavior will look quite similar in the end. Commitment and taking things seriously is definitely more about personal values than being T or F.

    As an aside, not directed at you and just because it's been on my mind lately, 'F type' is kind of a misnomer too. As is 'T type'. There are dominant Feelers and then those for whom the Feeling preference is a secondary function. I think that brings a very different flavor to things.

Similar Threads

  1. [MBTItm] How to deal with anti-rational, opinionated snobs?
    By tcda in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 03-08-2010, 06:31 AM
  2. [MBTItm] How to deal with ESFJs
    By elizamay in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 11-19-2009, 10:43 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO