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  1. #1
    The elder Holmes Mycroft's Avatar
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    Default A question for INFXs

    On several occasions I've seen INFXs refer, with rue, to some people as being "too far gone". I'm curious: what, in your minds, makes a person "too far gone"?
    Dost thou love Life? Then do not squander Time; for that's the Stuff Life is made of.

    -- Benjamin Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanack, June 1746 --

  2. #2
    Senior Member Sahara's Avatar
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    The people I consider too far gone are the ones who just won't take really really good advice that I know 100% is true, so stubborn and pig headed they are too far gone to reach.

    In all situations that is what is at the core of it for me, someone is too far gone when it no longer serves a purpose to even try.
    "No one can be free of the chains that surround them"

  3. #3
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Well, I would say that a person is too far gone when they become too entrenched in a particular perspective, and cannot be reasoned with to see another, especially if it's on an issue where they have a very unusual or harmful perspective.

  4. #4
    にゃん runvardh's Avatar
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    like the other two said, all efforts to reach are pointless. it affects us NFs more than NTs usually hence a slight mourning air to the meaning.
    Dreams are best served manifest and tangible.

    INFP, 6w7, IEI

    I accept no responsibility, what so ever, for the fact that I exist; I do, however, accept full responsibility for what I do while I exist.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  5. #5
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    I get the feeling that NF's approach it on more of a moral/self-determination angle than NT's do.

    NT = The right argument was not being used, but if they change their logic, there is still hope to reach an understanding... or maybe they'll grow into it. It's not necessarily a personal value commitment to be close-minded, they might still be convinced if the right language or approach is used.

    NF = The person's internal motivations are wrong and they are refusing to change into a better person -- they've made a commitment to stall their own growth. It's a commitment to selfishness. (Thus, they're "too far gone" to ever reach the self-awareness and openness needed to release their stubbornness and embrace the new path.)
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  6. #6
    Senior Member JivinJeffJones's Avatar
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    What Jenn said. Even if you could prove your point beyond all doubt, they still would not change their views because they don't wan to change their views. Usually personal identity issues and vested interests are tied up here. I never really consider young people to be too far gone, no matter how stubborn they are.

  7. #7
    heart on fire
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    I consider only psychopaths to be too far gone. There can be old or young pyshcopaths. There can be socialized psychopaths who learn to work their power games within the limits of the rules and laws of their enviroment.

    That said, I have come to the conclusion that people change their ways only in their own time. We have very little infuence over the actions of others. If they reach out for help, we can assist, but we also have to keep in mind that the person may not have yet reached that position of wanting to change or our way of trying to help them may not be what they need.

    People also need to recognize when someone is a drama junkie and really is thriving off the drama their behavior creates and merely wants others to vampire off of in that lifestyle. It would just be an endless drain to continue to try and help this person. Maybe they are not totally lost and will someday change their destructive ways, but none of us are required to sacrifice ourselves while they work all of this out.


    I consider very toxic the type of person who NEEDS to help others for ego glorification and to convince themselves of how utterly good a person they themselves are.

  8. #8
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    I consider only psychopaths to be too far gone. There can be old or young pyshcopaths. There can be socialized psychopaths who learn to work their power games within the limits of the rules and laws of their enviroment.
    Yup.

    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    That said, I have come to the conclusion that people change their ways only in their own time. We have very little infuence over the actions of others. If they reach out for help, we can assist, but we also have to keep in mind that the person may not have yet reached that position of wanting to change or our way of trying to help them may not be what they need.
    Yup.

    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    I consider very toxic the type of person who NEEDS to help others for ego glorification and to convince themselves of how utterly good a person they themselves are.
    Yup.

    Personally, I don't do a lot to try to help people change anymore. I don't consider it my place. I will listen and give feedback unless it is too much of a drain and I will try to help out if it is a reasonable request or it is a rare, short-term crisis, but that is about as far as I will go. I will also not stay around to watch someone self-destruct. It's too painful.

    Once I have determined that the return on my investment is going to be a net zero if I'm lucky, I consider the person "Too far gone."
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  9. #9
    Junior Member maidenhair's Avatar
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    I identify people as lost causes when:

    1. They ask for but ignore advice. I'm usually the person others turn to for counsel and have experienced this on numerous occasions. The person unleashes their drama and I analyse it to determine what behaviour has been problematic and how it can be remedied. I prescribe a course of action I believe is feasible based on the current circumstances. The person engages in a seemingly earnest display of gratitude, then promptly erases all advice from memory. I've come to the conclusion that such people are looking only for a sympathetic ear and have no intention of changing their behaviour(s). However, my desire to help people and believe in their ability to enact positive personal change has made me a sucker on many occasions. I have wised up in recent years, though it takes some time for me to brand them as too far gone.

    2. They repeatedly make the same mistakes. In my experience, these mistakes are not serious in isolation, but are compounded by a sequence of other poor decisions. Many of the mistakes revolve around academic and vocational aspirations; clinging to a past relationship or refusing to acknowledge that a new, desired relationship will not happen are other mistakes I often see.

    I find both instances are generally the result of excessive immaturity, self-centredness and/or irresponsibility, but delusion is probably a factor in some cases, too.
    "We do not have to visit a madhouse to find disordered minds; our planet is the mental institution of the universe." Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

  10. #10
    Senior Member Eileen's Avatar
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    I generally do not believe that people are ever "too far gone" for help or change. I do often believe, however, that a person can only change himself; he is not "too far gone" to do so, even if it is unlikely that he will.
    INFJ

    "I can never be what I ought to be until you are what you ought to be. You can never be what you ought to be until I am what I ought to be. This is the interrelated structure of reality." -Martin Luther King, Jr.

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