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  1. #11
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    To me a person seems "too far gone" when there are certain aspects that are simply vacant - like an absence of empathy, perpetual lying, a sense of satisfaction when cruel to others, etc. The person for whom the destruction of others is their goal for no reason other than a distorted sense of personal pleasure, is "too far gone". Such people will never choose to be anything other than what they are.

    And for those who have lived sheltered lives, there are actually people like i have described. More than you might guess.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  2. #12
    Resident Snot-Nose GZA's Avatar
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    I kind of think that I have grown and developed a lot over the years, and the direction it has been in has been enlightening. For some people, perhaps this development of the soul has been different, has gone in a different direction, and that direction they have gone in has caused them to be arrogant and closed minded. If they have lived life too long beleiving in that way then I suppose they ar e"too far gone"... but I think if they at some point have an external event cause them to question it, they can change.

    I perosnally never really say "too far gone" though.

  3. #13
    Senior Member JivinJeffJones's Avatar
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    It should be noted though that, even when I consider someone to be "too far gone", I don't consider this to be much of a hindrance to friendship. I just accept that those are the parameters of the friendship. It doesn't especially frustrate or irritate me, though it never ceases to puzzle me. I'm not sure if INFJs can do the same though - the ones I know would rather walk away from a friendship they have emotionally invested in with someone who refuses to be improved (or cannot improve them) rather than watch them stubbornly make the same mistakes. True, I don't know all that many INFJs, but it seems to be a constant with them. I'm not sure why it would be.

  4. #14
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    For me it's the empathic thing. I can't bear to watch them suffer. I cannot stop the suffering. They can but will not, so I just have to be where I can't see it anymore.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  5. #15
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JivinJeffJones View Post
    It should be noted though that, even when I consider someone to be "too far gone", I don't consider this to be much of a hindrance to friendship. I just accept that those are the parameters of the friendship. It doesn't especially frustrate or irritate me, though it never ceases to puzzle me. I'm not sure if INFJs can do the same though - the ones I know would rather walk away from a friendship they have emotionally invested in with someone who refuses to be improved (or cannot improve them) rather than watch them stubbornly make the same mistakes. True, I don't know all that many INFJs, but it seems to be a constant with them. I'm not sure why it would be.
    I look for optimizing emotional systems. Who can benefit the most from my time and energy? Whom do i benefit from? I no longer dismiss people entirely unless they are a threat to my survival. When younger and less secure i was more apt to run away from people who hurt me. With maturity my choices are more reasoned and deliberate. I can handle enough different scenarios and types of people to be a little less self-invested in the outcomes. I'm less afraid, so i can rely more on reason.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sahara View Post
    The people I consider too far gone are the ones who just won't take really really good advice that I know 100% is true, so stubborn and pig headed they are too far gone to reach.

    In all situations that is what is at the core of it for me, someone is too far gone when it no longer serves a purpose to even try.
    Yep.

    Quote Originally Posted by athenian200 View Post
    Well, I would say that a person is too far gone when they become too entrenched in a particular perspective, and cannot be reasoned with to see another, especially if it's on an issue where they have a very unusual or harmful perspective.
    Yep.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    NF = The person's internal motivations are wrong and they are refusing to change into a better person -- they've made a commitment to stall their own growth. It's a commitment to selfishness. (Thus, they're "too far gone" to ever reach the self-awareness and openness needed to release their stubbornness and embrace the new path.)
    Very good.

    Quote Originally Posted by JivinJeffJones View Post
    What Jenn said. Even if you could prove your point beyond all doubt, they still would not change their views because they don't want to change their views.
    Precisely.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eileen View Post
    I generally do not believe that people are ever "too far gone" for help or change. I do often believe, however, that a person can only change himself; he is not "too far gone" to do so, even if it is unlikely that he will.
    I suppose "too far gone" applies to my ability to reach them given my current resources.

    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    For me it's the empathic thing. I can't bear to watch them suffer. I cannot stop the suffering. They can but will not, so I just have to be where I can't see it anymore.
    That's part of it too. I can't help them change, and they won't change themselves, so I have to stop actively caring whether or not they change. I have to stop letting their situation cause me worry or stress. They're "too far gone" for me to invest emotionally in. Too far gone for me to wade neck-deep into mud in order to try to coax them out. It's obvious they don't want to come out, or won't trust me to lead them out. I have to let go of the situation.

  7. #17
    heart on fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by JivinJeffJones View Post
    It should be noted though that, even when I consider someone to be "too far gone", I don't consider this to be much of a hindrance to friendship. I just accept that those are the parameters of the friendship. It doesn't especially frustrate or irritate me, though it never ceases to puzzle me. I'm not sure if INFJs can do the same though - the ones I know would rather walk away from a friendship they have emotionally invested in with someone who refuses to be improved (or cannot improve them) rather than watch them stubbornly make the same mistakes. True, I don't know all that many INFJs, but it seems to be a constant with them. I'm not sure why it would be.
    I am INFP and I have little room in my life for those I truly consider beyond hope, like psychopaths and drama junkies. Life is too short and I just don't have the energy. It is not so much people who won't "improve" themselves, but people who are truly destructive to self or others. I don't want their destruction coming into my life. I won't waste time on toxic vampires either.

  8. #18
    Junior Member maidenhair's Avatar
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    I make every attempt to stick it out as long as I can because I hate ending relationships when I have made extraordinary efforts to cultivate them. However, my sympathy only lasts so long. If someone is given opportunities to change and doesn't, I become frustrated. If the negative choices they've made start to impinge upon my quality of life, I step back, sometimes completely removing myself from the situation. I hate to be so concerned with self-preservation, but the emotional toll others' problems have taken on me in the past have made me more cautious when I recognize a potentially harmful situation. I usually feel guilty when I disassociate with someone; for me to sever ties, the guilt must be less than the personal cost I'd incur by continuing the relationship.
    "We do not have to visit a madhouse to find disordered minds; our planet is the mental institution of the universe." Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

  9. #19
    Senior Member JivinJeffJones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    I am INFP and I have little room in my life for those I truly consider beyond hope, like psychopaths and drama junkies. Life is too short and I just don't have the energy. It is not so much people who won't "improve" themselves, but people who are truly destructive to self or others. I don't want their destruction coming into my life. I won't waste time on toxic vampires either.
    Fair enough, but that isn't what I was talking about. I'm not talking about someone who is using or abusing you, I'm talking about people who refuse (or seems unable) to take steps to avoid the things which are toxic in their own lives, and to make positive steps to become the sort of person they would like to be.

    Quote Originally Posted by maidenhair View Post
    I make every attempt to stick it out as long as I can because I hate ending relationships when I have made extraordinary efforts to cultivate them. However, my sympathy only lasts so long. If someone is given opportunities to change and doesn't, I become frustrated. If the negative choices they've made start to impinge upon my quality of life, I step back, sometimes completely removing myself from the situation. I hate to be so concerned with self-preservation, but the emotional toll others' problems have taken on me in the past have made me more cautious when I recognize a potentially harmful situation. I usually feel guilty when I disassociate with someone; for me to sever ties, the guilt must be less than the personal cost I'd incur by continuing the relationship.
    Hmm, I guess it's not just INFJs then.

  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    On several occasions I've seen INFXs refer, with rue, to some people as being "too far gone". I'm curious: what, in your minds, makes a person "too far gone"?
    i'm 35 and i have never said that of anyone...perhaps it's a "J" thing...or maybe its because openly flawed people are the only ones I can stand anymore....


    edit: i just read through this thread and there are so many self-righteous people on this site and intpc...i don't try to change people, i just accept them--if they aren't good for me, i say good bye, but that is about me, not them. if someone seems to be drowning i reach for them, and if they take my hand, i don't let go...i'm a pretty strong swimmer...

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