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  1. #61
    ¡MI TORTA! Amethyst's Avatar
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    My mom and dad. ENFP and ISTJ.

    Together for 20 years. Love each other, but for the past five years I just couldn't wait for them to sign divorce papers, but that has nothing to do with type, that's more of 'my dad became a controlling psychotic retarded alcoholic because he has an effed up past he can't get away from' problem.

    But they're doing great now.

    Oh, and this,

    If You Are Female, Your Best Matches Are:
    ENTJs: Generals

    *Dress your best; ENTJs are fastidious about your appearance.
    *Be ready to engage in a fiery debate about almost anything.
    *Sharpen your wit and be prepared to lampoon any silly, pompous, or hypocritical person or situation you observe.
    *Keep your cool when ENTJs use their famous acidic wit to roast you; tease them back and win their affection

    I don't know why they assume I will be roasted. I do not approve.

    Plus, I can't stand most (strong) J's...not all, but most.

  2. #62
    Junior Member latentorganization's Avatar
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    Default not all females right?

    Quote Originally Posted by tawanda View Post
    If You Are Female, Your Best Matches Are:
    ENTJs: Generals
    To whom are you speaking to? I don't follow because I don't think you would mean all females.

    P.S.
    Where did you learn your qualitative name for the ENTJ as General?

    I learned them as Field Marshals. The names sound similar though.

  3. #63
    Professional Trickster Esoteric Wench's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by latentorganization View Post
    I'll just go right out and say that I really don't subscribe to the socionics after discovering temp theory in the Keisian way so I do lean in that direction.

    But the relationship you saw or heard about with the ENFJ who acted as a big brother had a classic case of ENFJ dogmatic syndrome. The ENFJs that I knew growing up were not attuned to their thinking yet and preferred to make things sound wise when there really wasn't a good answer to be said. It's like they want things to be all figured out when all things aren't figured out yet. INTPs know that, but the ENFJ wishes he/she can explain the universe. Basically, it's an ego thing. The part about ENFJ and INTP relationship being about how the ENFJ is overbearing is a shortcoming of the ENFJ not learning to think about what they are saying. If this is the case in a ENFJ/INTP relationship, then the INTP needs to say, "Dude, stop acting like you know what's best for me, what I should be doing, and what I might do next. Go freakin' lecture to a group of kids if you think you're so damn smart." If I was acting like a big brother so someone I would wish to be intimate with, I should hope I would be grossed out.

    ENFJ/INTP is a relationship of sharing ideas; it should never be a one way street. It took me until I was about 26 to understand that lectures should be given if and only if I'm 99% to 100% sure that my audience wants to hear me. INTPs love hearing information that is: informative, accurate, credible and relevant. The moment I hear myself straying from one of these four guidelines, I shut up. I find many ENFJs very obnoxious (esp male ones)
    because of these simple shortcomings the ENFJ has developed.

    I believe this shortcoming of the ENFJ has manifested itself because no one stepped up to them and gently or no-so-gently cut them down a peg saying, "Look, you need to think about what your saying here cuz we're tired of hearing your random hypotheses." I wish someone would have told me that I long time ago without me having to figure it out for my self.
    latentorganization, I was sooooo impressed with what you wrote. Really.

    Frankly, I've had a bit of trouble with several ENFJs in my acquaintance. I think one of the things that made them such negative experiences was that we were sooo alike in so many ways, and yet we were different in ways that I found uncomfortable. I've never been able to put my finger on exactly what the problem was... but what you wrote has given me a big piece of the puzzle.

    I think you are exactly right about the occasional excesses in the ENFJ personality. And, I've had to take down a few ENFJ's a peg... or two... or ten. So thank you oh wise one.

    Back to the Socionics versus Keirsey thing. I think both theories hold value. And, they both have problems. Socionics has this whole creepy part that talks about how type is tied to appearance. (While I'm sure we inherent our cognitive preferences like we do any other trait, saying that an ENFP will look like A, B, C is B-O-G-U-S.) But if you can get past that, and the oftentimes poor English translations from the original Ukrainian/Russian, there is a lot there. The biggest thing that Socionics brings to the table in my mind is the idea that any two types have predictable ways of inter-relating. The inter-relationship predictions need a little tweaking, but the principle is sound, I think.

  4. #64
    Professional Trickster Esoteric Wench's Avatar
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    I really think the Socionics idea of duality is very useful in understanding compatible dating relationships. Even if you don't agree with it completely, it makes some very compelling points.

    Duals are opposite on every dimension except the P/J preference. So I'm an ENFP. My dual is an ISTP. We have the P thing in common. But otherwise, we're complete opposites. I have dated my dual and boy howdy. It really does work, I think. It's like we're so different, we don't even try to get into each other's space. And, I never ever ever thought I could be happy dating an S.

    I've paraphrased a great article I found from the Sociocnics.us Website. You can read the whole article by clicking here.

    For relationships to be compatible at a close psychological distance, some traits need to be shared by both partners ("resonatory" traits), while other traits need to complement each other ("complementary" traits).

    There has always been a debate about whether "like attracts like" or "opposites attract." The fact that this debate exists at all and has not yet been resolved is evidence that there is significant truth in both statements.

    For the greatest compatibility, partners need to naturally strive to take responsibility for decision-making in different areas of life. Leadership should smoothly and painlessly change hands from one partner to the other depending on which aspect of their activities is at the forefront.

    According to socionics, socionic duals are the most compatible types for long-term close relationships due to the nature of their information interchange, which satisfies the unconscious expectations of partners' psyches.

    [Duals tend] to strive to take control over different aspects of activities. Each person wants to have his say and dictate certain conditions to others in certain areas. In other areas people are willing to give in and adapt to others' demands. If partners strive to dictate their rules in the same areas, they will inevitably have conflicts and feel unneeded by the other. By claiming leadership in a certain area, one essentially implies that others must be followers. People of the same socionic type rarely feel like giving up leadership of their favorite areas and forcing themselves to complement the other's behavior.

    For duals, however, the process of transferring leadership takes place smoothly and naturally, as long as neither partner is psychologically damaged (I am talking about cases where for some reason a person relentlessly demands leadership in areas they are weak in).

    This is because duals' zones of leadership complement each other. For example, if both partners are into sports, one will want to take responsibility for ethical aspects and the other for logical aspects. One will want to be the intuitive leader, and the other the sensing leader. This is quite an abstraction, but in practice the pattern is not too hard to recognize.
    So in sum, there are many ways to skin the happy dating cat in terms of MBTI/Jungian Typology. I think most of the theories offer a glimpse of light on an otherwise murky subject. Keirsey, PersonalityPage.com, Socionics all have good points. But none of them should ever be used as a litmus test for dating or breaking up with somebody.

    However, bringing us back to the Love Types book / site, I don't think this guy's theory holds up well at all. Now I haven't read the entire book. But I have now read about 1/3 since this thread started. I am not impressed.

  5. #65
    ¡MI TORTA! Amethyst's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by latentorganization View Post
    To whom are you speaking to? I don't follow because I don't think you would mean all females.

    P.S.
    Where did you learn your qualitative name for the ENTJ as General?

    I learned them as Field Marshals. The names sound similar though.
    Oh, I apologize. It was when I was looking at what types are most suitable for the ENTP. I forgot to put that up . They titled the ENTJ as General on the site.

    Here:

    LoveTypes ENTP Love Tips

  6. #66
    Senior Member angelhair45's Avatar
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    I am an xNFP (leaning towards E) and my husband is an ESTP. We've been married 10 years. I think we are the exception to the rule though. We have had some volatile times, and man when we argue we pull out all the stops. We do have LOTS OF FUN. I think the only reason we've made it work is because we are both so desperately in love with each other It has been a lot of work, but we are finally at a place where it's easier now.

  7. #67
    Senior Member Neutralpov's Avatar
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    Default values thought

    Do you think that marriage works because you value that fun so highly and are alright with going along with differing methods or motives but as long as you both get fun?

    Just curious if the exceptions are because the value matches that is paramount and not the reason to get to that value.

    I see two vegetarians for example (or two people who value some priority) match because of the specific value and not that one is vegetarian for animal rights and the other for health. Same end different motivations.
    Extroverted (E) 67.74% Introverted (I) 32.26%
    Intuitive (N) 51.72% Sensing (S) 48.28%
    Feeling (F) 51.61% Thinking (T) 48.39%
    Judging (J) 69.44% Perceiving (P) 30.56%

    Type 1 Perfectionism |||||||||||||||||||| 83%
    so/sx/sp

  8. #68
    Senior Member angelhair45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeatherC View Post
    Do you think that marriage works because you value that fun so highly and are alright with going along with differing methods or motives but as long as you both get fun?

    Just curious if the exceptions are because the value matches that is paramount and not the reason to get to that value.

    I see two vegetarians for example (or two people who value some priority) match because of the specific value and not that one is vegetarian for animal rights and the other for health. Same end different motivations.
    Hmm, so you thing we put up with each other's shit because we love pleasure so much? I think you may have a point


    I didn't used to be all right going along with stuff, I am now. I was in a bad way for years, suppressing a lot of myself. So I acted like a really bad xNFP. He would not know what to do with me. Basically when my feelings would get hurt (usually over a joke he made; I can be overly sensitive) I would start acting like he was persecuting me. I would feel like he was purposely trying to make me miserable. Also, being and idealist, I'd get something in my head and if it didn't go according to plan I'd blame him. Anyway... once I started allowing myself to be me, and we both stopped obsessing over stupid shit, things have really gotten easier, and most importantly for us, more fun

    I think if I wasn't willing to put in the blood, sweat, and tears then we'd be divorced or in a very very unhappy marriage right now.

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