User Tag List

First 45678 Last

Results 51 to 60 of 81

  1. #51
    Senior Member alcea rosea's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    7w6
    Socionics
    ????
    Posts
    3,665

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    Here is how I see it. I don't understand Fs and how they operate internally.
    But the reactions of Fs are quite logical in many cases. People cry when they are sad, they laugh when they are happy and they shouting at you when they are angry.

    This is actually the only thing you really need to know. (I am oversimplifing)

    Once you know that it is not too hard to trace why they are feeling that way.
    I think it's more complicating than that and people are many times unaware of their feelings and why they feel that way.

    I don't see their behaviour as rational but it would be irrational to clam that this is something totally unacceptable. Since this is your natural framework.
    Strong T does not feel uncomfortable in emotional sitautions since he/she does not feel the sitautions. The more F you add the more uncomfortable the situation will be for a T. Until you hit the point where the person just blends in.
    Strongly emotional people with strong expression of emotions are very uncomfortable for the strong T's I know (and i have lived with one for almost 15 years now). But of course, I'm making a generalization here (and you were too).

    What makes you think that I (or some other T) thinks that they are empathic? There is no way that I am empathic as a person. The only thing I am claiming is that I can deal with this and I don't find emotions particually confusing.
    2 things that I have seen repeatedly with some strong T's:
    - I can rationalize feelings
    - I can rationalize empathy

    Some of them say that they got it, they say they understand emotions, they say that they can manipulate people emotionally, but in real life situation you see that they have no clue. So, they have thought it through theoretically but in real life it simply doesn't work. (And I'm making generalizations here too.)

    I don't understand the feeling itself but I understand what will case which feeling and how each person will react to given situation. What means that I use N qute alot here.

    However just because I understand all of this that does not mean that I will always respect their feelings. Especially if I see that their feeling leads to disaster/problem of some kind.
    Yes, but if you don't understand the feeling itself, you miss the core of the whole thing. You see the cause and the reason but you don't see the process that is the key thing.

    Respecting other feelings is something else. But do you really pick up other people's emotions just by looking at them or do you need to see what happens before and after to understand it?

  2. #52
    lab rat extraordinaire CrystalViolet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    MBTI
    XNFP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Posts
    2,170

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    Well you are right Ts have that attitude in many cases. Also you have provided the reasons why would they think that way. So I will connect the dots for Fs. (in the case it is not obvious)

    Your post looks like pure rationalization of a bad/unnecessary traits.
    What you have said is the pure confermation of the "accusation".

    I am very strong T and to me it looks like that a number of feelings (in Fs and Ts) are pure masochism.
    You say that living this life hurts. But why would someone want it to hurt so often? In your post you can almost sense that you want a prize for being able to live your life like this.
    Just because you are able to feel so much that does not mean that you deserve applause for that.
    You say that you would like to see us in your shoes for a day. OK, but why would someone want to be in your shoes?
    What would they gain by this ? The ability to throw up when they are stressed?

    This thread is full of post where people claim that they are hidding their negative emotions. Which is very good indicator that emotional intensity is not something that nice and good.


    As a person I can deal with emotionally intense people without too much problem since I don't sense their pain or joy. I admit that this can frustrate them but this is how things are going for me in life.
    From experiance I know that I can be in a room with 10 people who are crying because a boy was smashed into pieces(literally) and wonder what this people are doing.
    Now I am asking you the same question. What are they doing?
    It is clear that they have a need to express themselfs but that is their subjective need. Doing that will not change the outcome.
    Who actually had it better in that situation, me or them ?


    I am not posting this because I want to be mean to you. I am posting this because I want you to see how this looks like to the opposite perspective.
    Antisocial,
    I don't take it as you are being mean. We are both here to learn. I'll answer last bit first.
    Believe or not, I wouldn't be crying in that room with the ten other people. Yes, it effects me. Children's deaths are terrible, but to be honest, I'd probably be too busy looking after everyone else, and listening to the facts. If it was a member of my family I probably have to id the remains as well, and arrange the funeral. Only after everything had been dealt with could I even began to think about expressing my own grief.
    A child's death is a funny thing...it effects people that wouldn't otherwise be affected. It's about loss of potential, an bond being unexpectedly broken, not mention a good deal of emotional investment. It's heart breaking, and well, grief isn't a logical thing. Grief can be like the tearing off of a limb. It's the worst emotional pain you can experience. (sorry if I come across patronising, it isn't intentional)So people in that room (who I'm assuming are family members) are experiencing that. There is no purpose, it is simply an expression of that pain. For some vocalising it, and getting it out, let's them get on with the next bit of business, clears their head so to speak.
    I hope that gave some clarification....others might be able to explain better.
    I'm not the best person to ask about things like that, as I don't always react as I should....As much as I claim being emotional, I really don't express it well so I do come across as a really cool customer.


    Some acknowledgement of my strength would be nice, but no I don't want a prize. Really I'm pretty sure, IRL, it would be really hard to pick me out as a feeler...
    My point was and admittedly I wasn't clear, is that it isn't a choice to feel intensely. You do, or don't. It isn't about being addicted to feelings, or being indulgent. It's a physical feeling. I choose not express this because I get misunderstood, in much the way I am in this thread.
    Actually I'll come back this....and answer when I have a clear head.
    Right now I just want to make it clear, that I personally, don't spend all day mulling on my feelings. I'm actually relatively logical and clear headed because I couldn't do my job by feeling alone. I'm a scientist albeit not a very detached one. Plus you can't read stats through tears
    Currently submerged under an avalanche of books and paper work. I may come back up for air from time to time.
    Real life awaits and she is a demanding mistress.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  3. #53
    The Duchess of Oddity Queen Kat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    MBTI
    E.T.
    Enneagram
    7w8
    Posts
    3,116

    Default

    I only don't express my feelings in front of TJ's.

  4. #54
    Senior Member Synapse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    4
    Socionics
    INFp
    Posts
    3,403

    Default

    Yes that is the same with me at times too, some TJ's simply are unable to process too much emotions or tap into their feelings and it spins their head around when logic flies out the window. I'm only referencing this from how my family go tropo because of it sometimes. Actually now its more common with most people that I've learnt to have a cold surface and only warm up to friends I know. Even then I tend to keep emotions to myself.

  5. #55
    Senior Member Dwigie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    INFP
    Posts
    658

    Default

    Hum, around 9 out of 10 people. The 1 out of 10 representing family, friends and people who accidentally witnessed them by eavesdropping or my inability to hide them.
    Sometimes I feel like I'm "on Mercury"-

  6. #56
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    8,664

    Default

    Strongly emotional people with strong expression of emotions are very uncomfortable for the strong T's I know (and i have lived with one for almost 15 years now). But of course, I'm making a generalization here (and you were too).
    This also depends on which 3 other letters this person has. But in general this is also quite individual trait.
    Personally I am very introverted so I am very detached what means that the the feelings of others just pass next to me. Well dveloped N gives me a understanding that this is how you operate and there is nothing I can really do about it.(while T confirms that logic). While J makes sure that I don't change and adds a certain extra level of distance.




    2 things that I have seen repeatedly with some strong T's:
    - I can rationalize feelings
    - I can rationalize empathy
    And your point is?

    Some of them say that they got it, they say they understand emotions, they say that they can manipulate people emotionally, but in real life situation you see that they have no clue. So, they have thought it through theoretically but in real life it simply doesn't work. (And I'm making generalizations here too.)
    Well, some people are like that.


    Yes, but if you don't understand the feeling itself, you miss the core of the whole thing. You see the cause and the reason but you don't see the process that is the key thing.

    Respecting other feelings is something else. But do you really pick up other people's emotions just by looking at them or do you need to see what happens before and after to understand it?
    I that that you are overlooking one very important detail. Which is that the real understanding of your emotions is not among my interests.
    The only thing that interests me are cause and the reason since I need to know how the person will react.

    No. I don't "see" other peoples emotions, unless they are really obvious.
    But with wider context I easily understand what is on the persons mind.

    As I said I ahve no real wish to understand emotions fully since I can't.
    I simply have a way too much T to understand people who really feel.
    The main reason why I can't understand is in the fact that I can't relate.


    Quote Originally Posted by FireyPheonix View Post
    Antisocial,
    I don't take it as you are being mean. We are both here to learn. I'll answer last bit first.
    Believe or not, I wouldn't be crying in that room with the ten other people. Yes, it effects me. Children's deaths are terrible, but to be honest, I'd probably be too busy looking after everyone else, and listening to the facts. If it was a member of my family I probably have to id the remains as well, and arrange the funeral. Only after everything had been dealt with could I even began to think about expressing my own grief.
    A child's death is a funny thing...it effects people that wouldn't otherwise be affected. It's about loss of potential, an bond being unexpectedly broken, not mention a good deal of emotional investment. It's heart breaking, and well, grief isn't a logical thing. Grief can be like the tearing off of a limb. It's the worst emotional pain you can experience. (sorry if I come across patronising, it isn't intentional)So people in that room (who I'm assuming are family members) are experiencing that. There is no purpose, it is simply an expression of that pain. For some vocalising it, and getting it out, let's them get on with the next bit of business, clears their head so to speak.
    I hope that gave some clarification....others might be able to explain better.
    I'm not the best person to ask about things like that, as I don't always react as I should....As much as I claim being emotional, I really don't express it well so I do come across as a really cool customer.


    Some acknowledgement of my strength would be nice, but no I don't want a prize. Really I'm pretty sure, IRL, it would be really hard to pick me out as a feeler...
    My point was and admittedly I wasn't clear, is that it isn't a choice to feel intensely. You do, or don't. It isn't about being addicted to feelings, or being indulgent. It's a physical feeling. I choose not express this because I get misunderstood, in much the way I am in this thread.
    Actually I'll come back this....and answer when I have a clear head.
    Right now I just want to make it clear, that I personally, don't spend all day mulling on my feelings. I'm actually relatively logical and clear headed because I couldn't do my job by feeling alone. I'm a scientist albeit not a very detached one. Plus you can't read stats through tears
    I said the "mean" thing so that my intentions are obvious.
    Just for the record that room was a room for funerals. I think that if you are surounded with so much people in tears that there is a realistic possibility that the atmosphere would get to you. (but I am only speculating)

    To be honest I was expecting this kind of a reply form you.
    At what I am aiming here is that you are rationalizing emotions by observable degree. If you are trully llike this they why did you make the post you did few days ago?
    My best guess is that you are not clear about your emotions and maybe your are even uncomfortable when it comes to your emotions.
    I am saying this because this is not the first time I see you comlaining about your feelings.


    What my point was/is that I am spared of a this kinds of "problems" by quite extensive degree. What saves alot of energy and time.
    My "crime" in that situation was not that I did not weeped with them. My crime was that I did not have any real empathy/simpathy towards them.



    Quote Originally Posted by Synapse View Post
    Yes that is the same with me at times too, some TJ's simply are unable to process too much emotions or tap into their feelings and it spins their head around when logic flies out the window. I'm only referencing this from how my family go tropo because of it sometimes. Actually now its more common with most people that I've learnt to have a cold surface and only warm up to friends I know. Even then I tend to keep emotions to myself.
    That highly depends on what are the first 2 letters of a TJ.
    But I think that our head does not spin in that cases. We simply don't understand your emotional state of mind.

  7. #57
    lab rat extraordinaire CrystalViolet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    MBTI
    XNFP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Posts
    2,170

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    I said the "mean" thing so that my intentions are obvious.
    Just for the record that room was a room for funerals. I think that if you are surounded with so much people in tears that there is a realistic possibility that the atmosphere would get to you. (but I am only speculating)

    To be honest I was expecting this kind of a reply form you.
    At what I am aiming here is that you are rationalizing emotions by observable degree. If you are trully llike this they why did you make the post you did few days ago?
    My best guess is that you are not clear about your emotions and maybe your are even uncomfortable when it comes to your emotions.
    I am saying this because this is not the first time I see you comlaining about your feelings.


    What my point was/is that I am spared of a this kinds of "problems" by quite extensive degree. What saves alot of energy and time.
    My "crime" in that situation was not that I did not weeped with them. My crime was that I did not have any real empathy/simpathy towards them.
    If you want to know why I made that post than that should be obvious. I was angry, to spell it out for you. It should be rather apparent to you by now, I'd dispense with feelings if I could. That would be my choice, but as it stands, I really don't have a choice. Some one telling me I do have a choice is quite obviously going to irritate me.

    I work in medical science, and in the past have work on and off with patients directly, often with terminal disease. I have to display a sense of compassion without crossing the line into grief, or coming across as hard and uncaring. I've seen people dying, even taking their blood as they are doing so, in room full of crying family members, so when I say I wouldn't cry, I really meant that. Some times these are people who I have had some sort of bond/friendship with. They trusted me, and have asked for me, over the choice of my other colleagues, who are decidely less feeley.
    My feeling tendencies do have advantages, I gain trust far quicker, thus I get information far quicker, and they consent to things far quicker.

    I can't afford to stand there and analyse my feelings, and it's been like that one way or another through all of my life, so if I come across as not knowing how I feel and why, it's probably because I don't, but the emotions are still there. However as I stated above, it does have it's advantages, you may not appreciate them, but they are there. The biggest thing is really, is that both my collegues and patients trust me with a whole lot more, then any thinker I know. They know I'm extremely ethical, and they will know I will make decisions that has the best outcome for all.

    If I complain about my feelings, which I do, it's because I feel them with a great deal of intensity. It isn't the fact that I feel, it's the degree...there's no escaping. Fear, joy, desire etc, have inescapable physical effects on me. I do have to stop and attend these things. My conscious self is rather separate from my physical self, but for me there is no getting away from the fact that I have physical form.

    Antisocial, If you really can't feel anything, and it seems to me you really don't want to, no-one can really tell you what feelings go where. I think I've stated to you before, I have very little concept of your point of view.
    You are a person who feels little, and wants to understand why others do, and I'm some one who feels too much, and would like the relief of feeling not much at all. Not much common ground. If you are after observable feeling then you have to have understanding of the internal mechanics as well (I'm sure you have come to that conclusion yourself.)
    Currently submerged under an avalanche of books and paper work. I may come back up for air from time to time.
    Real life awaits and she is a demanding mistress.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  8. #58
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    8,664

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FireyPheonix View Post
    If you want to know why I made that post than that should be obvious. I was angry, to spell it out for you. It should be rather apparent to you by now, I'd dispense with feelings if I could. That would be my choice, but as it stands, I really don't have a choice. Some one telling me I do have a choice is quite obviously going to irritate me.

    I work in medical science, and in the past have work on and off with patients directly, often with terminal disease. I have to display a sense of compassion without crossing the line into grief, or coming across as hard and uncaring. I've seen people dying, even taking their blood as they are doing so, in room full of crying family members, so when I say I wouldn't cry, I really meant that. Some times these are people who I have had some sort of bond/friendship with. They trusted me, and have asked for me, over the choice of my other colleagues, who are decidely less feeley.
    My feeling tendencies do have advantages, I gain trust far quicker, thus I get information far quicker, and they consent to things far quicker.

    I can't afford to stand there and analyse my feelings, and it's been like that one way or another through all of my life, so if I come across as not knowing how I feel and why, it's probably because I don't, but the emotions are still there. However as I stated above, it does have it's advantages, you may not appreciate them, but they are there. The biggest thing is really, is that both my collegues and patients trust me with a whole lot more, then any thinker I know. They know I'm extremely ethical, and they will know I will make decisions that has the best outcome for all.

    If I complain about my feelings, which I do, it's because I feel them with a great deal of intensity. It isn't the fact that I feel, it's the degree...there's no escaping. Fear, joy, desire etc, have inescapable physical effects on me. I do have to stop and attend these things. My conscious self is rather separate from my physical self, but for me there is no getting away from the fact that I have physical form.

    Antisocial, If you really can't feel anything, and it seems to me you really don't want to, no-one can really tell you what feelings go where. I think I've stated to you before, I have very little concept of your point of view.
    You are a person who feels little, and wants to understand why others do, and I'm some one who feels too much, and would like the relief of feeling not much at all. Not much common ground. If you are after observable feeling then you have to have understanding of the internal mechanics as well (I'm sure you have come to that conclusion yourself.)

    The thing is that you have said that you think that T have superiority complex. What is true to some degree.

    What I am trying to do here is to show you (and others) why this happens.
    You are clearly a persons that feels. But because of this you have problems with functioning normally in your environment. You say you are angry ( and it looks like you are angry) but T think that this is a flaw.
    Your skills are needed in this world. But you have to suffer to do what you do best. So I am saying that being a T can quite helpful in life. Since you are spared of this (how ever you want to call it).
    Of course there are degrees between, nothing is black and white here.


    This is what I am trying to say from the start.


    Yes, I have come to that conclusions. I am studing feelings on the surface level. Which because I don't understand the depth of it.
    I simply can't relate.

  9. #59
    the Dark Prophet of Kualu
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    MBTI
    RAD
    Posts
    860

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FireyPheonix View Post
    and I'm some one who feels too much, and would like the relief of feeling not much at all. Not much common ground.
    I don't recommend it. Nu uh. Puts me into confusion.
    I can understand the viewpoint of Antisocial though. Well, in my own way of course.
    Fortunately and unlucky, we're all of unique mind.


    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    The thing is that you have said that you think that T have superiority complex. What is true to some degree.
    The thing is, you've written that you believe that T have a superiority complex. Which is true to some degree.

    Would bring out the concept better and also give further understanding to your point.
    I may be emotional but that doesn't mean that logic is beyond me.


    EDIT: I did not mean to be inconsiderate.
    Open for interpretation.
    Jo
    Fell for the temptation: Nohari / Johari

  10. #60
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    8,664

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gtzk View Post


    The thing is, you've written that you believe that T have a superiority complex. Which is true to some degree.

    Would bring out the concept better and also give further understanding to your point.
    I may be emotional but that doesn't mean that logic is beyond me.


    EDIT: I did not mean to be inconsiderate.
    Feel free to be more rude with me since my style of communication is quite impersonal.

    I am not claiming that logic is beyond you. What I am claiming is that I have easier time in many situations in life. Since I don't worry and I don't get stressed. Of course my level of thinking is actually disfunctional in modern society. But I think that in general Ts have it better/easier


    .

Similar Threads

  1. What is your type and how often do you use emoticons
    By King T in forum The Fluff Zone
    Replies: 47
    Last Post: 12-02-2017, 12:54 AM
  2. How often do you wash your clothing?
    By Feops in forum Health and Fitness
    Replies: 34
    Last Post: 07-11-2010, 06:38 PM
  3. [NF] NFs how often do you think about relativity of emotions ?
    By Virtual ghost in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 10-05-2009, 10:46 AM
  4. Replies: 45
    Last Post: 06-17-2009, 08:07 AM
  5. How often do you stay for the end credits of the movie?
    By The Ü™ in forum Arts & Entertainment
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: 02-22-2008, 12:48 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO