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Thread: Ask an ENFJ

  1. #31
    Senior Member Cronkle's Avatar
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    What is your worst trait then? Or better, what is the worst trait you've noticed across all ENFJs?

    P.S. 100% with you on "When I watch a movie I ask myself if this movie will impart anything upon me. This can range from being life lessons to emotional knowledge or scientific. It doesn't matter, as long as I feel that I will gain something positive from my time spent. I apply this metric to any media- books probably the most. I read a lot but I only read books that I know will be well worth the time spent. On a more somber note I also tend to apply this to people as well."

  2. #32
    Senior Member SpottingTrains's Avatar
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    ENFJs overall are always typed as being manipulative , whether out intentions are good or bad. Personally, I find my lack of trust in people to be my worst trait (if that counts as one). I find it very hard to truly trust someone.

  3. #33
    Senior Member Cronkle's Avatar
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    Hm, is there a positive word for manipulation? It has such unnecessary connotations. Manipulation implies to me that one of the parties is losing and one is gaining (parasitic in a sense) How is knowing how to make people happy and coming to mutual benefits manipulation?

  4. #34
    Senior Member SpottingTrains's Avatar
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    Affecting someone else's freewill to meet a goal no matter how good or evil it may be is always looked down upon. Personally, I see it as grey area that must be navigated carefully How do the words 'gentle coercion' sound to you ?

  5. #35
    Senior Member Cronkle's Avatar
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    Hahaha. Fair enough.

    They do sound good, but I think us devious ENFJs would be better calling it gentle compelling towards what is good and right. (As defined by us kind souls!)

  6. #36
    Senior Member ColonelGadaafi's Avatar
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    How do i annoy an ENFJ?.
    "Where can you flee? What road will you use to escape us? Our horses are swift, our arrows sharp, our swords like thunderbolts, our hearts as hard as the mountains, our soldiers as numerous as the sand. Fortresses will not detain us, nor arms stop us. Your prayers to God will not avail against us. We are not moved by tears nor touched by lamentations."

  7. #37
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cronkle View Post
    Hm, now that I have some fine ENFJs assembled here--I want to ask what they think of the trait of hastiness. (Which is what I think my worst habit is.) Does it categorize you?

    If so, what do you do about it?
    I'm a pretty impulsive person in the sense that I move quickly to (sometimes too) action. If I see something needs to be done, I'm not one to wait to see how things turn out especially when it seems clear to me how things will turn out.

    I'm doing something about it by not doing anything about it, lol. Just sitting and waiting and seeing rather than moving. But that depends on the situation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cronkle View Post
    Hm, is there a positive word for manipulation? It has such unnecessary connotations. Manipulation implies to me that one of the parties is losing and one is gaining (parasitic in a sense) How is knowing how to make people happy and coming to mutual benefits manipulation?
    Yeah, I wish there was a less loaded term for manipulation. I feel like what's happening is more social engineering than manipulation. Drafting, creating, and implementing blueprints for relationships. In some ways relationships are like buildings and roads, they have to be planned and built and maintained. There's also the unpredictability that can't be accounted for so you also have to deal with that. I think when you start controlling too much for that unpredictability it becomes manipulation.

    I have an ENFJ and INFJ coworkers and when we're talking about nudging people in certain directions or setting up certain events to happen in a certain way, it can be interpreted as manipulation but I doesn't feel like that. "If I do this then they'll respond in these possible ways, and then I'll respond in this way..." I can't help that my mind works that way and I don't feel bad about it although I realize the way it comes off, I don't talk about it to people I don't think would get it. Overall, it's no biggie and it's more or less applied thinking than something I'm doing constantly. Inferior Ti won't let me do that all the time!

    I know people sense this about ENFJs (possibly NFJs or even FJs generally) and it's probably why manipulative gets so often associated with the personality type. I think people may prefer a bumbling fool who fell into whatever good fortunes they have rather than someone who actually thought it out. I can see why it might be frightening to think that someone thought something out about you before you even thought of it and is moving you down a path you don't know about. My reaction would depend on the persons motivations and if they're moving you to their benefit, mutual benefit, or your benefit.

    But what do you do about it? When I say things like this I can't explain how much gut grinding I do to figure out what's my agenda, what's my motivation? I try to mitigate my propensity to do this by making myself as agenda-less as I'm consciously capable of being. I try to remove ME from the equation totally. Which can lead to a lot of rationalizations and justifications for behavior, because it wasn't done for me, it was done for someone else. There's the thought that if you lose yourself in there somewhere (at least for me) that your motivations are purer.

    It's probably better to know what your stakes and investments are in situations, but that is a hazy area for me and I prefer not to go there. There is a lot of thinking about why I do what I do, but not very many answers. Bottom line is it's my belief that I do what I do to make people happier and more fulfilled. There's always dissonance between ideal you and real you and that's something I'm painfully aware of.

    Quote Originally Posted by SpottingTrains View Post
    ENFJs overall are always typed as being manipulative , whether out intentions are good or bad. Personally, I find my lack of trust in people to be my worst trait (if that counts as one). I find it very hard to truly trust someone.
    This may also be a cause of the distrust of people with ENFJs. If I'm doing this much thinking who's to say other people aren't, and what if their motivations are unscrupulous? It's a paranoia based fear because there's not much certainty about yourself and it's projected to others.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  8. #38
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cronkle View Post
    Hm, now that I have some fine ENFJs assembled here--I want to ask what they think of the trait of hastiness. (Which is what I think my worst habit is.) Does it categorize you?

    If so, what do you do about it?
    If by hastiness you mean an absolute abhorrence for redundancy and wasted moments when I'm already geared for action, then yes, it can be a problem. Sometimes my ENFP sister is hanging onto the back of me digging her heels in to prevent me from acting on an impulse she thinks deserves another look (or is simply something she considers a bad idea). I find I lose patience very quickly when I've arrived at a decision and am already two or three steps beyond that planning my method of attack. I find I mirror my ENTJ bff Athena in that way, even though I have zero Te.
    eNFJ 4w3 sx/so 468 tritype
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    EII-Fi subtype, Ethical/Empath, Delta/Beta
    RLUEI, Choleric/Melancholic
    Inquistive/Limbic
    AIS Holland code
    Researcher: VDI-P
    Dramatic>Sensitive>Serious

  9. #39
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Introverted-esfp View Post
    How do i annoy an ENFJ?.
    Use double punctuation at the end of a sentence.
    eNFJ 4w3 sx/so 468 tritype
    Neutral Good
    EII-Fi subtype, Ethical/Empath, Delta/Beta
    RLUEI, Choleric/Melancholic
    Inquistive/Limbic
    AIS Holland code
    Researcher: VDI-P
    Dramatic>Sensitive>Serious

  10. #40
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    i think what people can see as manipulating is that you are very good at painting things in a certain light, creating an emotionally defensible position, perspective, etc. you can write very plausible stories that can justify anything in an emotionally subjective way. you know how to directly affect others, how to elicit certain reactions, and when ungrounded it does not necessarily have any connection to what is actually in their best interest. (or how they perceive their own best interest. you try to bypass their input in the decision-makin process by shaping the information/impression they receive). you can gloss over the way something can effect others, bc you are so dead-set in thinking that you are right, and all the while knowing deep down that this result would have positive ramifications for you (scary!).

    as an infj with aux Fe, who was very reclusive for a larger portion of my formative years and is just now getting to developing and relying on Fe aggressively, i can see why this can be so frustrating for others. i am realizing how i can use this in relationships to my advantage, but my years and years of training as a reclusive introvert relying on Ni and especially Ti to understand conceptual purity, truth, etc, has made me extremely wary and distrustful of this kind of point a to point b affect. when particularly moody it feels like emotional propaganda, passive aggressive politicking, etc

    it's why i'm so grossed out by my estp shadow, i watch what they do (Se > Ti > Fe) and i find them very loathable, mistrustful, and sometimes inhumane. the stories of conquest i've heard disgust me. i do not feel like everyone wins. Fe that does lip service to the Other, that glosses over it and does not really consider the implications, can be very devious and gross. i wayyyy overdo my objections tho and it's pretty much my overly introverted downfall, bc life involves conquest and conflict no matter which way you slice it.

    also as people mature (health!) they become more balanced and more even keel. other functions start to support and check what were once tyrannical dominants and auxilaries. it's maybe no closer to conceptual purity, but it's more flexible and the landings are softer.

    edit to add: i think it's also REALLY interesting to see how gender roles play into this equation of manipulation. in a sexual sense, it is LOVED when females behave this way. they are seductive and exciting. when males are this way other males interpret it in a very harsh way, even tho women generally tend to like it. more stereotypical men often view it as cheating the system, and other sensitive introverted men view it as devious, fake, and greasy like a used car salesman. it's easy to watch how ephemeral and rooted in nothing it is for males. watch it change on a dime- it looks like method acting.

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