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Thread: INFJ Trouble

  1. #31
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kai View Post
    These two paragraphs resonate with my experiences. I find it kind of unique and odd that conversations, after a long period of time end up having to go through the whole 'formal polite conversation' phase once again. Why do people engage in this sort of behaviour and what does it mean?

    Question for the INFJs out there. (Apologies for hijacking the thread.)
    The paradox that is...

    INFJ decides that there is not much in common. INFJ doesn't let other person know what's been happening in their life. Therefore confirming their own belief that things have changed between both people. This cycle seems to occur more often when people haven't spoken to each others for long period of times. All based off my own experience when the INFJ would sometimes comment 'so much has happened' without really going into much depth.

    Any identification?
    well, i abhor 'formal polite conversation' as meer drivel that keeps that person and myself from talking about real things.

    and if i don't go into detail when you ask me "how's it been going?" it's because i want to focus on you, and because i don't think you want to hear what i've really had going on........
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  2. #32
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    she's a card-carrying heideggarian, eh? that's funny. i always refer to him as old man heidegger, but my friend and i were always a little too into it. heidegger went from a phenomenological approach that was very interesting in a lot of accidental ways to a more mystical approach after the Turn. after which he focused on philosophy of language and poetics as the way the world discloses itself to itself. very self-disclosure-y. he used hegelian + nietzsche historical methods to create different epochs of human expression, and situates humanity as the highest voice for which the world can express/understand itself. he's charmingly intj, in that proto-fascist kinda way. derrida uses a lot of the same tools for deconstruction, oppositions and the privileging of one term over the other, to uncover similar processes of disclosure, self-diclosure, and discursive play. it's rooted in a lot of similar techniques albeit in way hipper, freeer, constantly refining itself intp language. deleuze gives it another facelift, cleans up the glaringly silly remnants of old/bad philosophy, and starts to make things fun. it feels like there's an ethic and an aesthetic to it. deleuzians are always the weirdest philosophy kids. and it transposes onto everything. so gloriously open-ended, anti-systematic free and clear conceptualizing.

    as for your ongoing conflict, i would also stress that it may be a bit hypocritical, but i have totally different expectations and ways of responding to different people in my life. it's not exactly fair the way i have sometimes expected others to understand why i respond the way that i do. if she is really passionate about the material, or about a specific, sometimes it may still be surprising to others for her to take it personally. i'm not saying this is the case, but i am often much harder on people whose input and attention i desire. i NEVER go thru the like airplane checkpoint process with people (i'm imagining the wand they use) unless i care about them and was then disappointed or felt as if something had gone awry. but if i do it its shows i am unhappy at how our communication is working, but that i still care enough to keep working on it.

    i personally enjoy intp and especially intj humor. i can be very very cutting and enjoy the evil of it. however infjs can be a very serious bunch. in my experience with intp (and Ti), the constant sense of irritation that derives is a terrible hatred for stupidity. waste of energy. lack of learning, intelligence, mental perfection, elegance, etc. for infj, our Ni wants things to fit together a certain way, it is especially focused via Fe on the possibilities for people, their feelings, what is important to them, how they should work, what they can do, realizing their creative potential, etc. we get very frustrated when something gets in the way of that, it is not taken seriously, etc. feeling, harmony, almost like a religious zeal, care, etc, these are very important to how we live. and somehow that traverses that can get the ax.

    also, i only know one entp, but the kid i know who's an entp is like a million billion times better at Fe than the intps i know. if you wanna be friends with an infj, you're gonna have to pay attention to her feelings more than you think you should have to. we notice all threads of meaning when it comes to how people relate, slight, embarrass, prop up, help, make fun of each other.

  3. #33
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aphrodite-gone-awry View Post
    well, i might have missed someone's quote before mine, but have you considered she might be 'infp'? i find them to be a bit more 'sensitive' and 'over-anxious' than the infjs i know, including myself.
    I have considered it. In fact, it's what I first thought that she was, because all I was seeing was the NF part. But she fits the INFJ archetype too well (interested in things like psychoanalysis, poetics *not the act of writing poetry*), has a real pragmatic streak, and is very Fe in her almost compulsive need to help people. Also, she's very naturally responsible and organized, and she has a guilt trip whenever she thinks she's going to let someone down or break their expectations, even if that person will in all probability not care. That's my case for her being INFJ instead of INFP, though I have more stuff if you're not convinced.

    Quote Originally Posted by aphrodite-gone-awry View Post
    i don't mean to be flippant, but just reading this annoys me. i can't imagine being around this behavior, especially in a group setting, which i find annoying anyway. in a group, i just wanna get whatever we have to do accomplished, and i would see innapropriate joking as, well, inappropriate, and counterproductive. if i were expecting it each time, which i would come to do if it was repetitive, i would go into the setting anticipating being annoyed which would make me appear more aloof and distant than normal.
    Well, the situation was more like this: one person posts a question on an internet blog, another person responds at length to that question a week later, and then the rest get to respond to that response a week after that. In this instance, she had done the lengthy response, and I had responded to her response. So it wasn't like we all had to meet together to get something done in any cramped amount of time, as I gather you inferred from my quote.

    Eh, it's not like I'm an obnoxious loud-mouth constantly blurting out sexual innuendo jokes or anything. I just sometimes make light of ridiculous things that I observe in people, places, things and ideas, usually in a quiet and inconspicuous way that only those nearest me would pick-up on. It usually helps ME ease into communication with others. But as this sometimes (usually if aimed at one of her beloved theories) seems to annoy her as much as your 'jokes in inappropriate places', I will try and be more careful about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by aphrodite-gone-awry View Post
    i always find something about people that i like, but if their behavior annoys me, i will exude that in my body language because i am extremely honest and in sync. yet, because i care excessively about people's feelings, i will not directly say anything, unless i/or my values are pushed too far.

    basically, i love people on a one-on-one basis. because of my razor-sharp efficiency, i may not always seem warm or interested in the feelings of people, especially in a group setting. but get me alone and i will be my true, warm self.
    This seems like her. She can seem cold at first, but as soon as she gets talking about pretty much anything (and she usually only talks at length about things she finds especially important) you can detect the strong undercurrent of emotion.

    Quote Originally Posted by aphrodite-gone-awry View Post
    also, i LOVE a sense of humor, even biting and cutting and brutal, but, again, in the appropriate setting. and i pick up where i left off with people all the time without having to reinvent the relationship.
    Well, would that she had some of your tolerance (even if it only applied to the 'appropriate' setting.)
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  4. #34
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    she's a card-carrying heideggarian, eh? that's funny. i always refer to him as old man heidegger, but my friend and i were always a little too into it. heidegger went from a phenomenological approach that was very interesting in a lot of accidental ways to a more mystical approach after the Turn. after which he focused on philosophy of language and poetics as the way the world discloses itself to itself. very self-disclosure-y. he used hegelian + nietzsche historical methods to create different epochs of human expression, and situates humanity as the highest voice for which the world can express/understand itself. he's charmingly intj, in that proto-fascist kinda way. derrida uses a lot of the same tools for deconstruction, oppositions and the privileging of one term over the other, to uncover similar processes of disclosure, self-diclosure, and discursive play. it's rooted in a lot of similar techniques albeit in way hipper, freeer, constantly refining itself intp language. deleuze gives it another facelift, cleans up the glaringly silly remnants of old/bad philosophy, and starts to make things fun. it feels like there's an ethic and an aesthetic to it. deleuzians are always the weirdest philosophy kids. and it transposes onto everything. so gloriously open-ended, anti-systematic free and clear conceptualizing.
    Heh, this is right up her alley (though she has a small fit anytime people mention Heidegger's fascism). I admire that people can get this stuff so easily and intuitively. I have to really work at it. What do you study, BTW?

    The only thing I've been bothered to retain of Heidegger is one of his claims that being in the world is constituted through language, meaning that language is not merely a tool to be used to refer to a reality, but that the subjective experience of reality (the only experience) is impossible without language. At least that was my gloss.

    You INFJs (and a few ENTPs) seem to just love this stuff to death.

    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    as for your ongoing conflict, i would also stress that it may be a bit hypocritical, but i have totally different expectations and ways of responding to different people in my life. it's not exactly fair the way i have sometimes expected others to understand why i respond the way that i do. if she is really passionate about the material, or about a specific, sometimes it may still be surprising to others for her to take it personally. i'm not saying this is the case, but i am often much harder on people whose input and attention i desire. i NEVER go thru the like airplane checkpoint process with people (i'm imagining the wand they use) unless i care about them and was then disappointed or felt as if something had gone awry. but if i do it its shows i am unhappy at how our communication is working, but that i still care enough to keep working on it.
    This is interesting to know, thanks for sharing.

    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    i personally enjoy intp and especially intj humor. i can be very very cutting and enjoy the evil of it. however infjs can be a very serious bunch. in my experience with intp (and Ti), the constant sense of irritation that derives is a terrible hatred for stupidity. waste of energy. lack of learning, intelligence, mental perfection, elegance, etc. for infj, our Ni wants things to fit together a certain way, it is especially focused via Fe on the possibilities for people, their feelings, what is important to them, how they should work, what they can do, realizing their creative potential, etc. we get very frustrated when something gets in the way of that, it is not taken seriously, etc. feeling, harmony, almost like a religious zeal, care, etc, these are very important to how we live. and somehow that traverses that can get the ax.
    Yeah, I think she recognizes that these are the things that I tend to be critical and derisive about, so she applies that knowledge to any criticism or jokes that I aim at her (or more seriously, to her ideas) and concludes that this is what I must feel about her or her ideas. Of course this is never the case, and I try to reassure her about this in my own way. She behaves exactly as you describe regarding the things that are of importance to INFJs (or to you, at any rate).

    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    also, i only know one entp, but the kid i know who's an entp is like a million billion times better at Fe than the intps i know. if you wanna be friends with an infj, you're gonna have to pay attention to her feelings more than you think you should have to. we notice all threads of meaning when it comes to how people relate, slight, embarrass, prop up, help, make fun of each other.
    He is better at Fe. Much, much better. I'm working on it, though. I even wrote an apology email the other week because I had acted kind of rude to the INFJ (I basically hastened out of the room without listening to what she was saying to me, because I was off in la-la land somewhere and in a hurry to get home after class). I'm trying hard not to offend others too much nowadays, because as silly an endeavor as I think this ultimately is, it's honestly something that's necessary if you want to deal effectively with people, which is necessary for my (or basically any) career. Plus I would like some friends here and there.
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  5. #35
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Oh, and it must be INFJ week on the forums.
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  6. #36
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Heh, this is right up her alley (though she has a small fit anytime people mention Heidegger's fascism). I admire that people can get this stuff so easily and intuitively. I have to really work at it. What do you study, BTW?

    The only thing I've been bothered to retain of Heidegger is one of his claims that being in the world is constituted through language, meaning that language is not merely a tool to be used to refer to a reality, but that the subjective experience of reality (the only experience) is impossible without language. At least that was my gloss.
    this is absolutely what heidegger means. he goes from being-in-time where he tries to understand the ontological Being thru the being of humans (da-sein), to a changed understanding that human language and poetics specifically are the highest articulation of Being, the highest form of self-disclosure/self-understanding/self-expression the world has produced. and that, as such, they have an ontological status, are a necessary part of the equation that makes up reality, that Being in fact IS the belonging together of language and world.

    heidegger is amusing and kind of nostalgic for me, but i find a much deeper and more lasting affinity with deleuze. i like wittgenstein, the anthropologist gregory bateson, henri bergson, the french sociologist pierre bourdieu, and of course jung. derrida is ok too, as if foucault and the science studies writer bruno latour.

    i majored in anthropology and religious studies. i was interested in all forms of theory i encountered. my senior year i was moving more towards cultural studies, it was sleeker- the methods were more free and it was rooted in semiotics and hermeneutics in a more directly cultural artifacts art media/medium kind of way, whereas anth is more predicated on cultural practices, ritual, social organization, etc. i was always more interested in art than aborigines.

    what about you?

    Yeah, I think she recognizes that these are the things that I tend to be critical and derisive about, so she applies that knowledge to any criticism or jokes that I aim at her (or more seriously, to her ideas) and concludes that this is what I must feel about her or her ideas. Of course this is never the case, and I try to reassure her about this in my own way. She behaves exactly as you describe regarding the things that are of importance to INFJs (or to you, at any rate).
    inf of both types do this way too much. we at times lose the ability to let go of our self-definitions and idealist frameworks. we misperceive our ideas and our convictions and our concepts as ourselves. especially the ones that don't take a breather and appreciate getting silly at the bar. we take everything personally from every possible angle and every perspective we possibly could. it can be downright ridiculous. i apologize on behalf of myself and others like me.

    He is better at Fe. Much, much better. I'm working on it, though. I even wrote an apology email the other week because I had acted kind of rude to the INFJ (I basically hastened out of the room without listening to what she was saying to me, because I was off in la-la land somewhere and in a hurry to get home after class). I'm trying hard not to offend others too much nowadays, because as silly an endeavor as I think this ultimately is, it's honestly something that's necessary if you want to deal effectively with people, which is necessary for my (or basically any) career. Plus I would like some friends here and there.
    this is very forgiveable, introverts do this often. there's a lot of mutual interest/attractions in infj intp, so stick with it and something good'll come of it. infj can be paranoid and overprotective of itself, but good faith gestures go a looooong ways. try to thaw her out.

  7. #37
    Cat Wench ReadingRainbows's Avatar
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    Everyone seems to have these problems with INFJs even the INFJ themselves.
    Quote Originally Posted by EffEmDoubleyou View Post
    St. Stephen took rocks and St. Sebastian took arrows. You only have to take some jerks on an internet forum. Nut up.

  8. #38
    Senior Member paisley1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyrielle View Post
    Well I know when people ask, "what's going on with your life?" and I haven't spoken to them on a regular basis, it's very very hard to me to figure out what to say. Most of the time I don't remember what specifically has happened and I need them to ask something more specific (like "so did you go anywhere interesting or different?" which is easier and less general). The question is so general, I can't help but give a general answer. I hate doing it too, because I know they're expecting me to elaborate, but I would need several minutes to sort of piece together what I recall happening and put flags on events that I deemed worth sharing with that specific person. The trouble with my memory, is I don't usually earmark events that are interesting.

    If you ask me that question, and I just talked to you last week, it's much easier to give a detailed answer because less will have turned into a sort of blur.

    But yes, sometimes I feel something isn't clicking anymore with someone I haven't seen in years, it feels really really weird to talk to them. I feel like we're miles apart. Sometimes talking with them suddenly becomes annoying because of this feeling of being on different planes. It makes me question if we were ever even on the same plane to start with...did we ever have that much in commmon? Was there ever anything beyond a surface-level interaction? When I discover that there wasn't, that the two of us never really got beyond the "enjoyable acquaintance level", I feel less inclined to work to bring the relationship back to a cohesive whole.

    The trouble is...I don't always know if I'm deluding myself or if I'm correct in what I'm perceiving.

    Yet, there are some people who I've lost contact with and when I suddenly talk to them again, it's easy and fluid and relaxed and I like seeing them again and talking to them again even though everything is different. I think that's the difference...is somewhere with that person there was some small connection on a deeper level. And eventhough time has separated interaction between us, that connection is still there and makes it easier to pick up right where we left off.
    I totally resonate with this. I hate it when people ask "what's going on with your life?" It's so ridiculous, I'd rather they just ask the immediate, "How're you?" of right now, so I could at least give an answer beyond, "Nothing." The other social custom I hate is the "So, how was your weekend?" My inside response is, "What the fuck are you talking about? What's the difference between the weekend and the weekday? Like really? Not that hell of a lot!" As well, it's only a select few I would talk to about such things anyway, and I almost feel like random people asking that question are just prying and looking for dirt on me, so I'm dismissive, but curteous.

    How many INFJ guys, have a hideous internal monologue, a speech filter if you will?

    Most notiably evident when inebriation is reached........Barenaked Ladies playing in the background, "when I discovered alcohol"........

    I find I'm constantly filtering and editing everything I say and doing social damage control when asked those types of questions and putting up with those types of people who need to make small talk. I'd rather people ask interesting questions, like, "I wanted to pick your brain about something" and then a question of some greater relevance than the mundane.

    Depth is important, because people who live in shallow simple waters I won't confide with much of a response and won't become much more than an acquaintance with. Friendly, but hardly friends. Associations are few and far between.
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  9. #39
    Buddhist Misanthrope Samvega's Avatar
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    The I the S the F the J spells trouble! No for real, she sounds like an unhealthy type for sure, I would figure out the X, I'm betting you'll find it between the I and the F. Totally 100% sounds like an ISFJ to me, I'm surprised more people haven't pointed out her not sounding very INFJ.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by TucsonENTP View Post
    The I the S the F the J spells trouble! No for real, she sounds like an unhealthy type for sure, I would figure out the X, I'm betting you'll find it between the I and the F. Totally 100% sounds like an ISFJ to me, I'm surprised more people haven't pointed out her not sounding very INFJ.
    Or perhaps you have a misunderstanding of INFJ, or have elevated them too much in your mind, and don't want to face the possibility that INFJ's can have negative sides to them.

    I don't feel I'm in a position to judge what type she is based on what Orangey writes, but would go off of Orangey's decisions on her type before my own, since Orangey actually knows her! I think most of us are just answering questions based on our own experiences and how WE process/react to things.
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