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  1. #11
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Fi can be indifferent for me but only if it and my puny Ni hook up and present a mini-INFJ style doorslam. Otherwsie Fi makes me care even about the cruddiest and most hopeless cases. Fi makes us adopt the dogs from the shelter that are missing a leg, blind in one eye and come with an elizabethen collar to keep them from eating thier own tail.

    Te for me is an analytical feature. It is fueled by the Ne/fi mission. It sorts individulas by usefulness and is indifferent if some must be put by the wayside for the sake of productivity. If they do not support the Ne/Fi mission then I am indifferent to them.

    Now, I think back on the ENFJs I have known w in real life (who make me glad to know about happy pink pirahna style ENFJs.) They are very controlling but in this odd, happy, sweet way. Yet very quickly our interactions break down as I never can "meet" thier expectataions. They keep trying to emotionally fiddle with me, yet I can FEEL it and I HATE it. So maybe that is the Fe, working its magic need for group harmony upon me.

    What is Fe's goal in the world? What is it trying to do? What would be the perfect Fe world?

    (Ever read "The Giver"...)

  2. #12
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    Ti is cold, analytical indifference centered around your own ego.

    ---

    .
    Can you elaborate on this. Why wouuld you say it is egocentric? It makes sense but I haven't heard anyone call it out like this before.

  3. #13
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    I suppose I meant by the original question, does Fe allow for being indifferent to, well, anyone? I think I have the idea that every person in the world is valued "good, I like" or "bad, I no like" by Fe. It seems like there is no "Meh, who cares about that one."

    But then, that's saying no person is trivial to Fe values?

    Which is sort of obvious?
    I'm feeling easy like Sunday morning so I'm gonna give a nice meandering answer! I'm also going to work backwards so hopefully it'll make sense.

    Is no person trivial? I don't know but I know I can easily feel righteous indignation over things that have nothing to do with me, with no sense of time or distance to stop the feelings. What I've been noticing with myself especially over the last couple of months is there is usually a need to DO SOMETHING coupled with a strong sense of urgency. You can move people to action when that happens, but it also means some impulsive and not very well thought out reactions that can explode in your face.

    I would not generally describe myself as an indifferent or detached person. I am and I present myself as an accessible, tangible person, who has problems and understands people have problems. I like being this way and being this way severely screws with the ability to indifferent. I just don't want to be an indifferent person. Too many people believe "It's not my problem" which is a disgusting attitude to me because eventually it will be your problem. It's not hard to engage me in your problems, although I ultimately decide the level of engagement. Like, I've had a handful of older people ask me to get them something off of a high shelf at the grocery store and next thing I know I have their list in my hands and I'm shopping with them. This guy I was friendly with during a semester class with called me two years later asking for help because he was in jail, about to be deported and needed an immigration lawyer. I was shocked thinking, dude we had one class together is there no one else to help you? I mean I could have "gullible fool" written on my forehead.

    So this may be where the indifference comes in. I am starting to prefer the kind of "help" that I give above (fleeting and situational) than the kind that is long and drawn out and will deplete me. Some people have got serious serious issues and I am increasingly not willing to get involved anymore. It's too much for me and the other person's problems take me over and then I've got my own stuff to deal with and I can't do all of it. So when I see something going in that direction and I'm going to get sucked in when I don't want to be I make myself detach. Not that I don't care but I make it out of sight, out of mind. I don't ask the person what's going on anymore or how they're doing or I don't allow them to tell me what's going on by constantly changing the subject or throwing out disinterested body language. Gradually, once I stop getting that stimuli I can begin to disengage with the person. I've done this a few times and I feel a bit guilty but you've got to recognize when you need to cut and run.

    I recently experimented with telling a person who was doing this point blankly that I'm not interested anymore. The reaction was interesting, but I guess I'm more interested in my reaction to her reaction than her reaction. It basically came down to am I going to pretend to be interested anymore or am I just going to tell her I'm not. I could keep pretending I am and things would continue as they are and we would be friends in name only. The more pretending I did less I truly cared because I was just going through the motions and my heart really isn't into that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    Te is a caring function?

    I have no clear idea what I'm getting at with the question. It's something about how people I know who I also know are Fe users seem positively unable to... to... to... back off? Unwilling and unable to live and let live when someone (me) is failing to recognise and present suitable, harmonious, charming behaviours. I can know about the theory, and declare it in their face, and it makes not a whole lot of difference. They are, it seems, NOT indifferent to the signs and signals of an absence of Fe in me, though, seemingly, royally indifferent to theory based objections to THEIR behaviour.
    Dude I'm telling you, leave the FJs alone. Abandon ship.

    I've asked people before, how close do you want to be to me? It's like I have to give informed consent, lol. The closer you are the worse it gets. You are my business, your whole existence is my business, there is little sense of when to go away or back off. You're in my little electron cloud. I really don't even know how to advise you how to get this FJ monkey off your back because you'd need an atom smasher or something once you get in that deep. It's the Fe Merge. I think Jung talked about it.
    For, when this happens, extraverted feeling draws the personality too much into the object, i.e. the object assimilates the person...
    I only do it to my immediate family and two friends and I love these people dearly. I try very hard to keep that in check. It's not necessarily a bad or negative thing although it can become overpowering. When it's good I will tear something down brick by brick with my bare hands if I have to. Things become very clear and I know exactly what I have to do and I'll drive straight down the middle. I'm doing it now with my mother and I've gotten this incredible energy that I have no clue where it has come from. I feel totally engaged, invested, and motivated to make things right. My mother said to me yesterday, when did you get like this? I said I don't know it just happened.

    Other positives are you're always in my mind and I'm always on the look out for things for you and thinking of ways to make your existence a more pleasant one. It's very much like that song "I Say a Little Prayer for You."

    Bad side is it's very possible for that same intensity to be dedicated to making your existence unpleasant and insufferable.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  4. #14
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    I think Fs, in general, have difficulty being/feeling indifferent in matters of the heart, or in matters concerning the human condition, so to speak.

    When you *truly* care about someone, or something concerning someone, it is hard to remove yourself from that person, or persons as if they were only a patient, a specimen, or a nondescript member of the colony at large.

    Being empathetic, and compassionate forces one to care and concern themselves with the state of another.

    When you are emotionally sensitive to others, you become the furthest thing from indifferent for their emotional states and well being directly affect you.
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  5. #15
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    Dude I'm telling you, leave the FJs alone. Abandon ship.
    I laughed.

    Then I wanted to complain about it not being my choice.

    Then I discovered it is my choice... I just have to feign or develop an indifference to my own demand that my identity as I recognise it be recognised. Without that constant battle over how my values are real, there isn't much in the way of conversation left on my side of the fence. Declare myself the loser. (And resist retaking the field.)


    I like INFJs though. They're not nice at all.

  6. #16
    Member Antreus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    I'm feeling easy like Sunday morning so I'm gonna give a nice meandering answer! I'm also going to work backwards so hopefully it'll make sense.

    Is no person trivial? I don't know but I know I can easily feel righteous indignation over things that have nothing to do with me, with no sense of time or distance to stop the feelings. What I've been noticing with myself especially over the last couple of months is there is usually a need to DO SOMETHING coupled with a strong sense of urgency. You can move people to action when that happens, but it also means some impulsive and not very well thought out reactions that can explode in your face.

    I would not generally describe myself as an indifferent or detached person. I am and I present myself as an accessible, tangible person, who has problems and understands people have problems. I like being this way and being this way severely screws with the ability to indifferent. I just don't want to be an indifferent person. Too many people believe "It's not my problem" which is a disgusting attitude to me because eventually it will be your problem. It's not hard to engage me in your problems, although I ultimately decide the level of engagement. Like, I've had a handful of older people ask me to get them something off of a high shelf at the grocery store and next thing I know I have their list in my hands and I'm shopping with them. This guy I was friendly with during a semester class with called me two years later asking for help because he was in jail, about to be deported and needed an immigration lawyer. I was shocked thinking, dude we had one class together is there no one else to help you? I mean I could have "gullible fool" written on my forehead.

    So this may be where the indifference comes in. I am starting to prefer the kind of "help" that I give above (fleeting and situational) than the kind that is long and drawn out and will deplete me. Some people have got serious serious issues and I am increasingly not willing to get involved anymore. It's too much for me and the other person's problems take me over and then I've got my own stuff to deal with and I can't do all of it. So when I see something going in that direction and I'm going to get sucked in when I don't want to be I make myself detach. Not that I don't care but I make it out of sight, out of mind. I don't ask the person what's going on anymore or how they're doing or I don't allow them to tell me what's going on by constantly changing the subject or throwing out disinterested body language. Gradually, once I stop getting that stimuli I can begin to disengage with the person. I've done this a few times and I feel a bit guilty but you've got to recognize when you need to cut and run.

    I recently experimented with telling a person who was doing this point blankly that I'm not interested anymore. The reaction was interesting, but I guess I'm more interested in my reaction to her reaction than her reaction. It basically came down to am I going to pretend to be interested anymore or am I just going to tell her I'm not. I could keep pretending I am and things would continue as they are and we would be friends in name only. The more pretending I did less I truly cared because I was just going through the motions and my heart really isn't into that.



    Dude I'm telling you, leave the FJs alone. Abandon ship.

    I've asked people before, how close do you want to be to me? It's like I have to give informed consent, lol. The closer you are the worse it gets. You are my business, your whole existence is my business, there is little sense of when to go away or back off. You're in my little electron cloud. I really don't even know how to advise you how to get this FJ monkey off your back because you'd need an atom smasher or something once you get in that deep. It's the Fe Merge. I think Jung talked about it.


    I only do it to my immediate family and two friends and I love these people dearly. I try very hard to keep that in check. It's not necessarily a bad or negative thing although it can become overpowering. When it's good I will tear something down brick by brick with my bare hands if I have to. Things become very clear and I know exactly what I have to do and I'll drive straight down the middle. I'm doing it now with my mother and I've gotten this incredible energy that I have no clue where it has come from. I feel totally engaged, invested, and motivated to make things right. My mother said to me yesterday, when did you get like this? I said I don't know it just happened.

    Other positives are you're always in my mind and I'm always on the look out for things for you and thinking of ways to make your existence a more pleasant one. It's very much like that song "I Say a Little Prayer for You."

    Bad side is it's very possible for that same intensity to be dedicated to making your existence unpleasant and insufferable.
    This was a really brilliant post on Fe. Each one of your examples on INFJ's and relationships is profound and that quote by Jung is very good to back it all up. Funny, two months ago I told someone, you may learn to hate me. Rather, I am prepared for you not to like me in the end. Not saying I made it psychosomatic or anything but I think I made him come to grips with too much he didn't like about himself, he second-guessed my intentions, without my actively giving him credence to feel so misunderstood ( I always listen to what he has to say ) and we don't talk now really.

    It's just awkward after he blew up in my face over something trivial. Being empathic boy did that sting. Especially with how attached I get to people and their lives. Snip, snip, he's cut off or rather I am.

    But in regards to who and how I share my life with people I really have to keep myself in check. What has helped me pick my battles and be more indifferent is to see the world and it's people as solar systems, galaxies, different planets, or planetary moons. It is how I envision social circles and social dynamics when I feel emotionally drained. It takes a lot more energy to link up between earth to pluto for example. It is very easy for me to merge with objects or subjects and for this reason my indifference can be at times a means to protect me. This isn't to say that I don't occasionally try and reach out beyond my solar system. I do so very often at my own peril.
    His form has passed away, he has become a mirror: naught is there but the image of another's face.

    ( I ) 3%, ( N ) 59%, ( F ) 26%, ( J ) 16%

  7. #17
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    My INTJ classmate and me 3 months ago walked together to the busstop were a bus waited and was going to drive us to our homedestinations. The bus was waiting while we were about 40 meters from it, and I personally thought we had enough time and could keep our pace and still get on it. Unfortunately we didn't have as much time as I thought and while we actually were in a conversation about something we had talked about during a lesson at school my mind was at the same time centered around the hunch if we would have time. ANYWAY. I gave off a comment; "shit it left!" And then he said: "why didn't you run for it?" and I replied "I thought we had enough time" and then he said: "bad luck, next time you should run". IxTJ's usually get's annoyed at my behaviour and say it very often and can't easily let things go if it doesn't seem intelligent enough for them. I encounter this know-best behaviour very often and from my experience Fe isn't that different from Te.

  8. #18
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    i come off as an intj a lot of the time.

    priorities, yes. i have a lot to do with Ni and Ti that don't necessarily rely on the colours of Fe to determine their interpretation, experience, organization. the more extroversion, the more i merge with the world, the more Fe comes into play and soaks thru my skin.

    i can be harsh and coldly analytically when i am in exploratory mode. the distance of conceptualization and theoretical understanding, and the usage of symbols that are not breathing and feeling, helps. as does the kind of grey manchester mood that sometimes comes over me when i get lost in a world that is somewhere in between, like purgatory, not really living but not really free either.

    when i perceive emotions strongly, when they are directed at me or i am a MAJOR actor/player in the scene as it is happening, when i recognize that, there is no indifference. i can overpower my initial response to said emotions at times if i care more or invest more deeply in something else, but it is with great conflict and slow steady tendentious struggle.

  9. #19
    movin melodies kiddykat's Avatar
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    Depends on my blood sugar level. On top of that, I'm NOT a morning person. I can be cranky as hell when the sun is glaring in my eyes and I haven't had much to eat. Either that, or too much sugar in my diet, makes me sleepy and I put on my angry face.

    Also, when I feel wronged in some way, I will be the most careless bitch on this planet.. usually, it takes a lot for me to get there, especially when I see that someone is insincere either to me or a loved one, bc they have opportunistic tendencies.

    I like genuineness/kindness in others. I know I'm a hypocrite when my glycemic levels are way too high or way too low. Physiologically, I am sensitive. Emotionally, when I care about someone or something, I know I can be too much at times.. in terms of 'feeling,' which can cause a total opposite reaction- apathy.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by happy puppy View Post
    Can you elaborate on this. Why wouuld you say it is egocentric? It makes sense but I haven't heard anyone call it out like this before.
    Ti for me isn't cold...It just IS...as in being.

    It doesn't involve emotionality when only using Ti, it just ruminates and organizes thoughts. It is internal for sure. I think that is why we sometimes get looks like, "WTF! are you talking about" YOu don't see the thinking going on, you just hear the end result or sometimes the 'endless results'. For me, I use Ne and Ti pretty concurrently most of the time, but its changing greatly now so i find myself comparing the before and after.

    I looked up 'egocentric' to be sure...it said, regards the self as all things. I don't see it like this...Of course, I use Ne along with it so it is constantly conjuring up possibilites or answers to information that is coming in, by whatever means(not just speaking). I feel its more like a computer processing information. Not cold, not egocentric, just "it exists"...i would not put a judgment on it because it somehow implies that thinking is wrong or less than feeling. Does this make any sense?

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