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  1. #71
    Senior Member placebo's Avatar
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    For me it's not about wanting to have deep conversations with everyone I meet though. But knowing that a person potentially could is nice. Just having some common interest is enough, yet that's hard enough to find that sometimes. People I find myself around tend to usually be interested in discussing grades, Gossip Girls, boys, shopping, text messaging, or video games. It's just frustrating? :\ I mean, I know not everyone's like that all the time, and I like talking to people whoever they are, but dealing with hearing that day in and day out is just annoying.

  2. #72
    actinomycetes raindancing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valhallahereicome View Post
    As an example of an ideal interaction: A few weeks ago I had to share the table at a cafe with a guy and he struck up a conversation about the book I was reading, which was something fairly philosophical and "deep." Then we quickly progressed to politics and spent an hour and a half debating economic issues and the pros and cons of a popular democracy. That was fun! It doesn't always have to get that intense, but I do love it when people share their opinions.
    Yes that sort of deep conversation I always enjoy and would be keen for anytime.

    Unfortunately it doesn't seem to happen that often, but when it does I really value it. I guess I don't expect people to want to engage in these sorts of conversations, although from memory I used to when I was young (8-11ish?). Too many instances of being rebuffed caused me to decide they weren't the norm.

    But oh, for an ideal world, where every cafe table is a different intriguing conversation just waiting to happen
    “Can a man of perception respect himself at all?”
    ― Fyodor Dostoyevsky

  3. #73
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    to me this sounds like being in kind of a negative state and allowing your own like symbolic perception to determine what and who everything is.

    i used to hate this, and this, and this, and it was bc to me it REPRESENTED something that encroached upon my ideals, that was anti-thetical, that grossed me out, that was evil and conniving and despicable and deserved to die (the cultural meme itself).

    i wanted to blot out this blight on humanity that was pushing it in the wrong direction.

    i have no problem making snap judgments of people, the representational framework i've made is enjoyable, interesting, and usually correct. nevertheless, keep gathering information, don't filter out anomalies but instead look for them, there are plenty of little cracks in the surface you can get into and learn why these things make sense and some of what they can offer.

    with that said, we're nfs and nothing is ever gonna change the fact that we are inspired and motivated and moved by impulses that are contrary to most of the activities pertinent to society at large. and to express these feelings and ideas and meanings and symbols is important, but so is finding a way to affirm the whole complex mish-mash of life that includes that which is outside of, contrary to, and even sometimes hurtful to us.

  4. #74
    movin melodies kiddykat's Avatar
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    Hi,

    For me, my intuition picks up on certain cues about people. I don't necessarily not talk to them based on a premonition of whether or not I feel we will get along. Instead, I base it on the fact that I can gauge myself a certain way so that I can 'handle' the situation.

    Sometimes, I think some people may call certain things intution, when really, it's just fear talking. Often, people fear what they don't know, so they mistake that as intuition, when it really isn't. Intuition for me, is something that I feel when I feel calm from within. Also, I'm learning to listen more subtly when people behave a certain way, even though it's not apparent why they do. It tells me a lot about why people do things the way they do, not because they ask for it, but because of their environmental influences, personal experiences, and self-identity.

    I personally think that when people are fake and live that kind of life, it's bc they're too scared to handle the truth. They feel too scared for being judged, too scared to be strong, too sheepish. In a way, I feel sorry for them. I know I shouldn't.

    I completely understand what you mean, being that I'm also native to the land of fakeness, socal. Seriously, the shit drives me up the wall. I try to shrug it off though.

    Despite everything that may come off irritating, sometimes, I guess one way to look at it is what we're going through only defines who we are, what we do want in life so that we can set goals to get there?

  5. #75
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    I have not read all of the responses so am probably missing some good ones or will be repeating what's already been mentioned by others.

    I will say that I related a lot more to the OP as a teenager, in college, and in my early 20's. But to be honest, much of my time during that period was observing others, and not really interacting with others. So, I made assumptions, and pretty much wrote off the vast majority of the human population as people I'd never connect with, or who'd never like me, or who I had nothing in common with. And at that time I kinda viewed most people as being trifling and ignorant, so it's not like I wanted to forge relationships with most of them anyway...and I held many of them in disdain. Also was scared of most, but that's beside the point. ;-) I just always felt on a different wavelength from most, growing up, so I think this attitude was a result of that feeling.

    It's easy to judge when you don't get to know a person and are just viewing safely from afar. I know that'll sound really trite and annoying to some, but I say it because it's something I recognize in myself -- just that it is easy for me to judge others and set myself aside as somehow 'unique' and 'different' from them so as to never be able to connect with them -- but the minute I start talking to people, and getting to know even a little bit about them, the judgements just kinda fall away and I start seeing a lot of commonalities amongst people -- just more basic human things, like, we all have desires, needs, hopes, dreams, problems, etc etc.

    Of course this doesn't take away from the fact that there are people who I really would NOT be able to connect with, and there are people whose behaviors DO annoy me. I'm not saying I don't dislike some people and am warm and fuzzy towards everyone - because that's just not true.

    But I guess I've kinda stopped lumping people into groups that I 'won't get along with' and ones I will get along with, just by observation. Personality and all of that can be very subtle, and often first appearances can be quite deceiving....or at the very least, don't begin to show the full person. (and another caveat...sometimes you learn that what you saw at first really IS pretty much all there is) Some people who I would never have thought I'd be able to converse with, and enjoy conversation with back in my early 20's, can be quite delightful, fun, interesting, and really good people. They may not fulfill my deepest soul-needs (or whatever), but seriously.....it's not like I'm fulfilling most of these peoples' soul-needs either, and I'm probably an oddity on many levels to them. They're probably not fully comfortable with me either. So I guess that's what it boils down to these days - trying to connect on whatever level is possible with whomever I'm with, and not needing some uber-connection with everyone...and being quite happy with those smaller connections as well, which can be just as meaningful in some ways. Yes, my soul can be exceedingly lonely at times, but....oh well. That's probably human too.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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  6. #76
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascademn View Post
    I have not read all of the responses so am probably missing some good ones or will be repeating what's already been mentioned by others.

    I will say that I related a lot more to the OP as a teenager, in college, and in my early 20's. But to be honest, much of my time during that period was observing others, and not really interacting with others. So, I made assumptions, and pretty much wrote off the vast majority of the human population as people I'd never connect with, or who'd never like me, or who I had nothing in common with. And at that time I kinda viewed most people as being trifling and ignorant, so it's not like I wanted to forge relationships with most of them anyway...and I held many of them in disdain. Also was scared of most, but that's beside the point. ;-) I just always felt on a different wavelength from most, growing up, so I think this attitude was a result of that feeling.

    It's easy to judge when you don't get to know a person and are just viewing safely from afar. I know that'll sound really trite and annoying to some, but I say it because it's something I recognize in myself -- just that it is easy for me to judge others and set myself aside as somehow 'unique' and 'different' from them so as to never be able to connect with them -- but the minute I start talking to people, and getting to know even a little bit about them, the judgements just kinda fall away and I start seeing a lot of commonalities amongst people -- just more basic human things, like, we all have desires, needs, hopes, dreams, problems, etc etc.

    Of course this doesn't take away from the fact that there are people who I really would NOT be able to connect with, and there are people whose behaviors DO annoy me. I'm not saying I don't dislike some people and am warm and fuzzy towards everyone - because that's just not true.

    But I guess I've kinda stopped lumping people into groups that I 'won't get along with' and ones I will get along with, just by observation. Personality and all of that can be very subtle, and often first appearances can be quite deceiving....or at the very least, don't begin to show the full person. (and another caveat...sometimes you learn that what you saw at first really IS pretty much all there is) Some people who I would never have thought I'd be able to converse with, and enjoy conversation with back in my early 20's, can be quite delightful, fun, interesting, and really good people. They may not fulfill my deepest soul-needs (or whatever), but seriously.....it's not like I'm fulfilling most of these peoples' soul-needs either, and I'm probably an oddity on many levels to them. They're probably not fully comfortable with me either. So I guess that's what it boils down to these days - trying to connect on whatever level is possible with whomever I'm with, and not needing some uber-connection with everyone...and being quite happy with those smaller connections as well, which can be just as meaningful in some ways. Yes, my soul can be exceedingly lonely at times, but....oh well. That's probably human too.


    Basically what I said . Great minds think alike!

  7. #77
    Senior Member alcea rosea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valhallahereicome View Post
    When I talk to someone, it's generally easier to enjoy the conversation. Still, I meet too many people that I just can't relate to.
    I cannot really relate to most people I meet either like you. I don't know if I even like most people I meet but I do find people interesting. I don't mean interesting in what they are saying (necessarily) but the way they are behaviour interesting. And people are all unique and that's interesting too.

  8. #78
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    i have this same problem, but not so much with things that people can't change, like accents or manners of speech. i will engage people in conversation and once i am able to start predicting their response, i become annoyed. i also don't like people who visibly follow any set "social rules", like the hipster movement in new york. it just bothers me because it is completely insincere. okay, so maybe you're a guy and you LIKE wearing girls' jeans. maybe you woke up one morning and thought you'd look good with an asymmetrical haircut. i'd be willing to accept it, but chances are, it's just pressure to "fit in". i've never felt this and i've never wanted to feel this and the fact that some people are so easily ruled by "what is expected" tends to gripe me beyond belief. standing in starbucks, i'll hear bits and bobs of conversations and then begin to, in my mind, formulate opinions on a person based off of that. is it true? maybe. can i start to predict how they will respond and react? often. do i use this to judge them for all eternity, never giving them a chance if they approached me? no. i think that's the difference. for all the internal compartmentalizing and labeling i do in my head, i never let it reach a point where the person's ACTUAL interaction with me couldn't change it. if, say, the girl in front of me who's talking about skinny jeans and the jonas brothers orders a frap just the way i imagine she would turns to me and strikes up a conversation, it's almost like what i was thinking before hangs in limbo until it's either confirmed or rejected. does that make any sense? the danger is letting the first impressions hang and not letting a person redeem themselves from your interpretation.

    i've always felt that i get way too intense and invested in things. if people don't match my interest or level, i become bothered or feel that it doesn't matter as much to them. in retrospect, i see this is unfair because who am i to say it doesn't matter as much to a person, based off of my external view of the situation? maybe the level their offering, even if it's less than mine by my scope of it, is just as intense in their mind? maybe they're doing all they can? maybe they show things differently than i do and i'm just unable to recognize it? i am learning, especially as i get older, to allot for this. it's hard because i often feel like a loner, just hanging out, caring about something too much, expecting too much in return, when everyone else seems to just cruise along, satisfied with this or that. especially being introverted, engaging people past a certain point is difficult and uncomfortable, so the draw of just "hanging back" adds to it. i'd rather just sit here, comfortably inside my head, but i'm learning to recognize when it's needed for me to dig deeper. i think it'll just take practice and some time spent being uncomfortable, but i think if you allow for opportunities for redemption and opinion-altering, you won't feel like you're being so unfair.

  9. #79
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    I've only skim through the responses... do excuse me.

    Yes, sometimes I do "dislike" people on instinct. But very rarely when I've been introduced to somebody, not while talking to them. Usually my first impression of "like" or "dislike" stems from how they act outside a conversation. For example how somebody behaves on the bus... Like this lady who always put her purse beside her on the seat towards the window such that she sits pretty much in center leaving half a spot towards the aisle. The buses are usually pretty full... you can see how people eye the spot but decided to stand. Then one time a girl did take the spot. The lady made no attempts to make room at all. The girl ended up getting up to stand after 2 stops. I didn't have a good first impression of her the first time around and the incident with the girl just proved me right.

    I would say most of these snap judgments are Fe related. I agree with you that there is the danger in making the wrong judgment but I find that reading from "non-deliberate" actions to be fairly accurate. After all they have no reasons to be anybody other than themselves. In conversations, well I guess all you can really do is to put a check on your initial judgment. Ask yourself is there any other reason they might be acting in this fashion. Are they nervous perhaps? Or is this "expected" way to act.
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  10. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valhallahereicome View Post
    I want to like people, I really do. I try to look for the good in people and I love it when people open up and really show themselves.
    I form very quick judgments of people. However, I am constantly open (not intentionally - it's not a mindset of being "open-minded") to the idea of them revealing something within them that connects with something within me. (Not that this ever happens...)

    Quote Originally Posted by Valhallahereicome View Post
    I want to dig down beneath the surface and find something real that I can appreciate in them, but it's hard to penetrate that far down.
    The last conversation I had with my ex-husband before I left him involved the two of us sitting on the couch - he with his arms crossed facing the television and I sitting with my whole body turned towards him.

    Me: I just want more of you. I want more of you, Travis.
    Him: Maybe this is all there is.

    For some reason, I can't accept that what I get from other people is really all there is to them.

    There is a lady at my work who I really like and would like to be friends with. But she drives me crazy because I keep trying to get her to open up about something not work-related or particular event-related, but nothing ever happens.

    With my co-worker in mind, I told my mom the other day that I get frustrated with people who seem not to have souls (I don't actually believe in souls, but she does). And I don't mean that in a good vs. evil sort of way. I'm referring to that spark in someone that meets yours and ignites something beyond the two of you.

    I keep trying to dig beneath the surface of their predictable going-through-the-motions conversations, as though I hear the faintest ping through my soul detector, see the faintest glow emanating through the dust. Sigh...

    Quote Originally Posted by Valhallahereicome View Post
    Or maybe if I were able to appreciate people for who they are, I would like them better.
    I have been thinking about this a LOT lately. At least, if I could start appreciating people for who they are, maybe I would stop looking for them to be someone they are not, which in turn, might help me to realize that some people are just not compatible with me (romantically, that is).

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