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  1. #1
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    Default Problems with ISTJ snide remarks

    Do other NF's or other INFJ's have this kind of problem with ISTJ's?

    I have typed ( I could be wrong) three people I know IRL as ISTJ's. One is a relative, the second is a buddy's mother and the third one is a church leader.

    I find that they can make those snide remarks that pass for jokes but which are thinly veiled criticisms. Of all the other MBTI types, aside from the obnoxiously loud ESFP's, I find this type, the ISTJ's the most irritating and I tend to stay away from them whenever possible. I can take them in small doses and usually I then play it cool and try not to show my innermost self.

    It is not like I don't have a sense of humour. But they will say these things and smirk a bit or laugh to make it appear that they are joking (but the smile never reaches to the eyes) and in a word or a look, evaluate your socio-economic status or pass judgement on your worth as a person.

    Mind you, I am a pretty good teacher in a tough subject and I integrate IT into my teaching but coming from the mouth of this lady, whose husband was a hotshot at the same subject decades back, I come far short. "It got to the point where to the pointed question, have you ever had a blank while explaining something?" She said it with enough of a smarmy smile. I replied, 'Lady, you're offending me'. I had that same question from another friend and it did not offend me and I replied calmly. BUT the way this lady asked it, it sounded like she was probing or calling into question my worth. 'How many of your pupils got good results?' or questions like that. This same lady sat up and took notice the day I got out of the BMW of my unk though...

    It is annoying also when you find them in churches where they basically dare to boss even the pastor... And they have this rigid way of passing remarks again, as a joke, that make you feel, 'hey, what have I done to deserve this?' Plus they are blind as bats, protecting the very people you've intuited as the opportunists and power-hungry...And situations evolve where you feel like, 'people, where is your discernment?'

    I find that I need to stay away from them for a long time. Then, suddenly, they appear more humane. 'Where have you been?' and they are almost bearable and one can talk to them. Still, give me an NT or an NF anyday! INTJ's or ENFP or INFPs rock.

    Is it me who needs to work on getting a thicker skin? Any other NF's or INFJ or INFP or ENFP having lived this?

    My buddy is an ENFP and I have seen other ENFP under ISTJ mothers or fathers get all miserable. Any pattern here...

  2. #2
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    Sounds familiar.
    I can't remember how many times I've nagged to my ISTJ mom about her tone. It feels accusing, diminishing, but it aways doesn't mean that. Sometimes it's just a straight up remark or an actual joke. But not always.
    But I haven't noticed it from other ISTJ's I know.
    I don't know how to address it as a problem, I have simply grown a thicker skin..

  3. #3
    a scream in a vortex nanook's Avatar
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    making something look like a joke when its really a competitive strike can often be observed when politicians talk in public, and its common for all competitive thinking types. they would pretend that its a sportive thing to do, but to a feeling type "sportive" translates into "just a game" so we feel they are lying, as obviously their sport is about killing "for real" as in "not just a game". sometimes it is argued that this "play-full" competition without double bottom was a typical male thing. well in that case i am going to stay a pussy (with a metaphorical COLT for self defense).

  4. #4
    Systematic chaos Cenomite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Immaculate Cloud View Post
    My buddy is an ENFP and I have seen other ENFP under ISTJ mothers or fathers get all miserable. Any pattern here...
    I've mentioned this before, but my Mother is an ISTJ, and growing up under her was a real experience. She's apologized several times for pushing me so hard in school.

    If something wasn't perfect, it wasn't good enough. If I didn't do it the "right" way, or if I didn't do the assignment using the method my teacher wanted me to do it with, I was doing it wrong. If I didn't hand something in on time, gave excuses, or did anything less than the best, she made sure I knew that wouldn't fly. I was always the one who was overdressed for events, the kid with the over-the-top project, etc.

    Now that I've "grown up" so to speak, I can respect her way of doing things more. Back then though, it was a constant clash of viewpoints. The worst of them probably had to do with me being a very strong P, and her being a very strong J. She wanted me to have a plan for everything, and let her know where I planned to be in advance. The problem is, I had no idea where I planned to be until 5 minutes before I left for said destination. I would change my plans at the last minute constantly and throw her off, etc.

    I think I rubbed off on her though, she seems a lot more willing to "think outside the box" and not follow such strict guidelines now, if only to humor me :P.

    Around the middle of high school, she finally figured out I wasn't gonna change and that she was stuck with me. She finally gave me some space =D.

    So yeah, at least with me, there's a pattern.
    The probability that I was procrastinating when I was typing this post:

    P(have big assignment due) = 0.6
    P(posting on TypoC) = 0.2
    P(having big assignment due | posting on TypoC) = 0.7

    P(posting on TypoC | having big assignment due) = .......


    Eh, I'll finish it later.

  5. #5
    Let's make this showy! raz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Immaculate Cloud View Post
    snip
    I have the opposite problem where I have to censor myself around certain people, especially ENFPs. I throw around a lot of comments very loosely but they're easily taken as offensive. I'm not talking something usually extremely vulgar. It's something I've noticed at work and school with myself. I'm not afraid to question teachers or supervisors as long as I have reason to do it.

    It's just my sense of humor that goes for more crude or logical things.


  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Immaculate Cloud View Post
    Any other NF's or INFJ or INFP or ENFP having lived this?
    Not really. I've met people like that in my life, but I really don't care enough to try and type them. Of the few people I've typed as ISTJ's, I get along pretty well with them. One thing I've noticed, is that they tend to follow a specific pattern of conversation with new people, i.e. using the same jokes, or subject points, or whatever. So to that end, I'm not sure how much of her tone was intentional or not. Buuut, she might just be a bitch. Hopefully, you won't have to talk to her again.

  7. #7
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    Thanks Cenomite for feedback...

    The buddy whose mum is an ISTJ was also dressed to the T's while growing up. Everything must LOOK perfect. Image is everything. That lady once apologized to me not so much for the crass behaviour of her son as for the 'bad impression it made'... For the son making her lose face in front of a guest.

    Another ISTJ mom I know puts a premium on inculcating 'oughts' and 'shoulds' and 'right way' to do things to her daughter who turned from being impish and free to regimented and angry and rebellious. Taking out her aggression on me because at home, Mommy is all powerful and no doubt in her mind, Mom is always right. To the diplomatic advice to the mother to soften her parenting style a bit, I only got a 'but still, as I am sure that you are well aware, she MUST learn that life is hard and that success only comes through much effort' etc. I might as well be speaking to some deaf person. Smooth manners, very polite, saying all the right things, very PR. Yet, why do I feel like I want to recoil in disgust? Why do they see life as a competition in which you absolutely HAVE to get the better of your peers???

    I am no dreamer. I can understand that evil exists and I can understand our society needing stalwart ISTJ's as policemen, etc or whatever they are good for. Do they always need to be that regimented, that rigid? I find that their very insistence on their set ways is in itself dangerous for the tender souls in their care.

    One ISTJ mom I know had a son who committed suicide. He was a very sensitive guy. I felt sorry for him. He married a girl who was just as rigid as the mother, if not more. From time to time when the anniversary of his death comes, I catch myself wondering just how much repressed anger there was in him growing up, to then, find himself a wife who reproduces the 'mother image' and then to kill himself?

  8. #8
    a scream in a vortex nanook's Avatar
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    unless i think of the wrong people when i think "istj":

    they have the most different behavior in family as opposed to public life.

    commanding and outspoken in family, but obedient and silent in public and profession.
    the whole point of their perfectionism is to get into a good position with diligent work and in spite of their inability to deal with powerplays and competitive behavior in communication (because they don't really understand such things). they will delegate the projected authority that they have floating over their heads. the enneagram cant explain this combination of six and one and two.

    unlike TeSi (estj) who are commanding and competitive in public

  9. #9
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    Hmm, that is very interesting, Nanook.

    The late French psychologist, Francoise Dolto once wrote (emphasis mine):

    "Security! (Job security). They only have this word in their mouths, those parents, CIVIL SERVANTS OR OTHERS, who bring to us kids who 'do not want to study'. I ask them:"Study, why?" "To have a good career!" A good career like you? Well, yes, for instance. 'Do you LIKE your job/career?' - Well, no, BUT at least I got the job security'

    She goes on to write - ( I am translating from the French and it might not sound very idiomatically correct in English)

    So we want our children to have job/financial security. Fine. But security what for? If the price of security is to no longer have any imagination, no longer have any creativity, no longer freedom, i think that security is an essential need, but not TOO MUCH. Too much security beheads the desire/drive and the risk that is necessary for someone to feel 'alive', 'challenged'.

    End of quote.

    This is where I feel the ISTJ parents err. Reading Dolto and reading your feedback comforts me in that idea. And another generation of little robots is produced. I think what Dolto meant was that one needed to be vibrant, to love life. She was not saying, 'don't study'. She was asking for balance.

  10. #10
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
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    LOL, my ISTJ friend does this to me sometimes but I feel I generally give as good as I get and she is generally pretty thoughtful about being polite and kind spoken. She gets to be sarcastic, I get to tell funny stories about her. It's a wash.

    Sarcasm is only cutting or truly aggravating to me when it catches me totally off guard or I feel we haven't built that trust level or intimacy for you to be joking with me like that.
    “If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.” ― Oscar Wilde

    "I'm outtie 5000" ― Romulux

    Johari/Nohari

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