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  1. #1
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Default How ENFPs see the world (maybe?)

    Hi guys,

    this seemed relevant but let me know if I am cluttering stuff up.

    Jung discusses the way an extrovert seems to give part of themselves to the object. I didnt quite get this but when reading this text below suddenly it seemed a little more clear. I think this is how the ENFP sees the world through Ne tinged with Fi.

    Just some fun reading though.


    An chunck o' text from "stephan Hero" by James Joyce

    You know what Aquinas says: The three things requisite for beauty are, integrity, a wholeness, symmetry and radiance. Some day I will expand that sentence into a treatise. Consider the performance of your own mind when confronted with any object, hypothetically beautiful. Your mind to apprehend that object divides the entire universe into two parts, the object, and the void which is not the object. To apprehend it you must lift it away from everything else: and then you perceive that it is one integral thing, that is a thing. You recognise its integrity. Isn't that so?

    -And then?

    -That is the first quality of beauty: it is declared in a simple sudden synthesis of the faculty which apprehends. What then? Analysis then. The mind considers the object in whole and in part, in relation to itself and to other objects, examines the balance of its parts, contemplates the form of the object, traverses every cranny of the structure. So the mind receives the impression of the symmetry of the object. The mind recognises that the object is in the strict sense of the word, a thing, a definitely constituted entity. You see?

    -Let us turn back, said Cranly.

    They had reached the corner of Grafton St and as the footpath was overcrowded they turned back northwards. Cranly had an inclination to watch the antics of a drunkard who had been ejected from a bar in Suffolk St but Stephen took his arm summarily and led him away.

    -Now for the third quality. For a long time I couldn't make out what Aquinas meant. He uses a figurative word (a very unusual thing for him) but I have solved it. Claritas is quidditas. After the analysis which discovers the second quality the mind makes the only logically possible synthesis and discovers the third quality. This is the moment which I call epiphany. First we recognise that the object is one integral thing, then we recognise that it is an organised composite stru ' cture, a thing in fact: finally, when the relation of the parts is exquisite, when the parts are adjusted to the special point, we recognise that it is that thing which it is. Its soul, its whatness, leaps to us from the vestment of its appearance. The soul of the commonest object, the structure of which is so adjusted, seems to us radiant. The object achieves its epiphany.

    Having finished his argument Stephen walked on in silence. He felt Cranly's hostility and he accused himself of having cheapened the eternal images of beauty. For the first time, too, he felt slightly awkward in his friend's company and to restore a mood of flippant familiarity he glanced up at the clock of the Ballast Office and smiled:

    -It has not epiphanised yet, he said.
    Last edited by sculpting; 03-02-2009 at 08:13 AM. Reason: i cant spell exceprt, exert, expret? ???

  2. #2
    EvanTheClown (ETC) Clownmaster's Avatar
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    The way an ENFP sees this thread: hard to read through lol, they don't capture your attention with their words. I'm prone to daydreaming as my eyes glance over the words without comprehending what they're blindly overlooking.

    I'll have to check this thread out when I'm not so sleep deprived.

    This space reserved for an edit after I'm exponentially more lucid.

    Because you can't spell "Slaughter" without "Laughter"

  3. #3
    Seriously Delirious Udog's Avatar
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    A soap opera where they are the star.

  4. #4

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    hehe, thats ESFP. Being the star is a little unnerving.

    I actually read it but my comprehending powers are about equal to Evan's.

    Will reread when awake.
    Freude, schöner Götterfunken Tochter aus Elysium, Wir betreten feuertrunken, Himmlische, dein Heiligtum! Deine Zauber binden wieder Was die Mode streng geteilt; Alle Menschen werden Brüder, Wo dein sanfter Flügel weilt.

  5. #5
    a scream in a vortex nanook's Avatar
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    you lost me when you dropped bombs like "quidditas" but ill be back tomorrow

  6. #6

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    hehe, NFs and philosophy...
    Freude, schöner Götterfunken Tochter aus Elysium, Wir betreten feuertrunken, Himmlische, dein Heiligtum! Deine Zauber binden wieder Was die Mode streng geteilt; Alle Menschen werden Brüder, Wo dein sanfter Flügel weilt.

  7. #7
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nanook View Post
    you lost me when you dropped bombs like "quidditas" but ill be back tomorrow
    I did not write that stuff!!! I just copied and pasted. I guess Joyce the author was famous for making up words. I bet that quidditas is one of his made up words.

  8. #8

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    Maybe they are used in quidditch.
    Freude, schöner Götterfunken Tochter aus Elysium, Wir betreten feuertrunken, Himmlische, dein Heiligtum! Deine Zauber binden wieder Was die Mode streng geteilt; Alle Menschen werden Brüder, Wo dein sanfter Flügel weilt.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Xellotath's Avatar
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    Ah, Joyce <3

    Initially I was resistant to your argument, due to the rather intuitive nature of arguments, I thought it could apply to all N subtypes.

    Then, I thought the NTs would probably take awhile to consider the immediacy of the radiance stage - the heart of the appreciation of beauty. My guess is that they would first instinctually consider its use and possible rational applications.

    Ok, probably down to NFs... (hard not to sound elitist, apologies.)

    Here is where things get a little sticky. Fe vs Fi.
    Fi makes sense.. but... ah.. I can't explain it. I just can predict there will be an argument from the other camp suggesting otherwise.

    Cool excerpt, though! Thanks for bringing it up.

    Edit:
    Question, do you think an argument could be made that it could apply to Se Fi?
    Because according to Joyce, these processes occur to anyone with a mind at all. Know what I mean?
    Also, from personal experience, an object becomes more intensely beautiful and irresistible once there is some additional mental architecture and private connotations associated with it - I become hypersensitive to the object's meaning..the symbols it illicits.

    Might be just me though.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by happy puppy View Post
    I did not write that stuff!!! I just copied and pasted. I guess Joyce the author was famous for making up words. I bet that quidditas is one of his made up words.
    The thing I noticed about myself and ENFPs(sorry if I connect myself to ENFPs to much) you can read a passage or myself listen to a song 50 million times and just appreciate it for a deep passage or a good song, but once we go through an event in life that we have to figure out the meaning just appears and the all of a sudden it is crystal clear in what it means and at that point you really appreciate the song or passage for what its worth.
    Im out, its been fun

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