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[INFJ] INFJ's... pushed around/controlled?

lane777

nevermore
Joined
Oct 23, 2008
Messages
635
Are some types pushed around more than others? I'm an easy going person who is not easily offended. Sometimes I think others take advantage of this, by giving me their piece of mind, because they know I won't lash out no matter how offensive/condescending the content is. Do other INFJ's experience this? Can you relate in any way?

I realize that since I am the youngest child, this is probably typical (being treated this way by older siblings), but I've also received this treatment from friends and co-workers. I also realize that the truth is sometimes painful - having your flaws exposed. I don't mind this, as long as I'm confronted in a respectful loving manner... but I rarely am. I'm working on confronting this problem with my family, but how could I have avoided this problem from ever occurring in the first place?
 

tibby

New member
Joined
Nov 22, 2008
Messages
682
MBTI Type
fool
I have Dr Phil's voice echoing in my head : "people treat you the way you let them treat you."
 

Tiny Army

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Jan 12, 2009
Messages
679
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EN?P
Enneagram
7
Yes and you bring it on yourselves.

ENFPs are easy going and not easily offended but we're just more proactive about not letting people abuse our warm personalities. INFJs are beautiful, warm, empathic people but my God you are gluttons for punishment. I have seen so many INFJs who only date assholes or whose best friends are total bitches.

You could have avoided this problem by not being an INFJ child in a family of types that naturally take advantage of that. There's nothing you can do about the past. Stop taking shit from people and if you have taken some serious shit in the past, give me their addresses and I will go over there with a machete. Someone needs get you INFJs away from these people.
 

the state i am in

Active member
Joined
Feb 12, 2009
Messages
2,475
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infj
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5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
you an enneagram 9?

i'm a 5w4 and acerbic enough to avoid this situation. altho i would say that openness and not being neurotic and guarded are probably better qualities. just make sure your feelings don't get lost in the shuffle.
 

Tiny Army

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679
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7
YEAH TYPE 5!

TYPE 7s AIN'T TAKE SHIT FROM NO ONE!
 

StoryOfMyLife

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Oct 27, 2008
Messages
619
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Huh... this isn't something that I've really thought too much about before. When it comes to certain people, I'm extremely stubborn and strike out independently before I'll be pushed around or cornered into doing something I don't want to do, or dealing with ill behavior/condescending remarks against me. When I'm angry enough or just in a horrible mood, then I'm quick to lash out with sarcastic remarks [my defense mechanism, always has been] and on occasion, I'll cut the other person to the quick with the most hurtful thing I can think to say. And then I feel awful for it afterward, but that's beside the point.

However, I do know that there are certain people who DO walk all over me because I just let them. In high school, my best friend was never concerned about anybody but herself. In retrospect, a LOT of my friends back then were more self-concerned than worried about anybody else. This brought me to a lot of situations where when something bothered me, I very rarely was able to talk about it because I'd immediately get cut off with a 'well, back to my problem...' and the conversation would flash back to my friend's issues at hand. I never corrected it, raised a hand and spoke up saying "Hey, quit monopolizing the conversation, it's not all about you." My best friend back then was the queen of making everything about her and getting me to do things I didn't really want to do [when in turn, she almost never would join me in something she was less interested in and just called me weird for wanting to do it in the first place...].

In the work place, this is also common for me. I don't know if it's just an avoidance of creating problems or a respect for those with seniority over me, but I'm easily pushed around and I deal with a lot of harrassment, even if it is mostly in jest. There are times that I have had my fill, even when I'd laughed at it before because it was funny. When it loses the value of amusement to me, I clam up instead of saying 'hey, cut it out, I'm annoyed by it now.' Sometimes it's just difficult for me to speak my mind. As a child, I was heavily disciplined to never talk back [even though I would still do it], got in trouble if I started crying for anything [called a 'cry baby' and 'tattler' -- only recently have I been able to actually accept that crying isn't a BAD thing], and then later was told that I should be 'more open' with my emotions [by my mom- the same person who disciplined me...] and speak up when something is bothering me.

Perhaps it's a game of mixed messages and I'm just internally confused on how to handle certain situations like this. Most times, it's a matter of circumstance. I've got to be fed up, pissed off, and moody to lash out and tell somebody where to stick it. Otherwise, I'm patient to an extreme where the most I'll do is sigh, roll my eyes, and vent about it to somebody later.
 

sade

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Aug 23, 2008
Messages
761
I'm easy going, not easy to piss off, lenient. But I stand my ground, and don't let people push me around. I shove back. :devil:
It's been an unfortunate surprise for some.

I don't know if it's a question of type, but about how you're used to.. respond to people. What you've learned and the natural temperament. Sure the NF's in all are probably more empathetic, and so give in easier. But I don't think it's a rule or more prominent among some types.
But I could be wrong.
 

Laurie

Was E.laur
Joined
Jan 3, 2009
Messages
6,072
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
7w6
It happens to me. People will be total douchebags to me and I just try to be "nice" and ignore it. But it ends up really bothering me because I feel like the douchebag "wins."

This doesn't happen often, but when it does it really sticks out to me. It's usually when someone has really done something insanely stupid and I just try to be nice back. I'm starting to think if something like that happens again I'm going to flip just to see how that works.

What causes people to think they should treat others so poorly.
 

Apollanaut

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Huh... this isn't something that I've really thought too much about before. When it comes to certain people, I'm extremely stubborn and strike out independently before I'll be pushed around or cornered into doing something I don't want to do, or dealing with ill behavior/condescending remarks against me. When I'm angry enough or just in a horrible mood, then I'm quick to lash out with sarcastic remarks [my defense mechanism, always has been] and on occasion, I'll cut the other person to the quick with the most hurtful thing I can think to say. And then I feel awful for it afterward, but that's beside the point.

However, I do know that there are certain people who DO walk all over me because I just let them. In high school, my best friend was never concerned about anybody but herself. In retrospect, a LOT of my friends back then were more self-concerned than worried about anybody else. This brought me to a lot of situations where when something bothered me, I very rarely was able to talk about it because I'd immediately get cut off with a 'well, back to my problem...' and the conversation would flash back to my friend's issues at hand. I never corrected it, raised a hand and spoke up saying "Hey, quit monopolizing the conversation, it's not all about you." My best friend back then was the queen of making everything about her and getting me to do things I didn't really want to do [when in turn, she almost never would join me in something she was less interested in and just called me weird for wanting to do it in the first place...].

In the work place, this is also common for me. I don't know if it's just an avoidance of creating problems or a respect for those with seniority over me, but I'm easily pushed around and I deal with a lot of harrassment, even if it is mostly in jest. There are times that I have had my fill, even when I'd laughed at it before because it was funny. When it loses the value of amusement to me, I clam up instead of saying 'hey, cut it out, I'm annoyed by it now.' Sometimes it's just difficult for me to speak my mind. As a child, I was heavily disciplined to never talk back [even though I would still do it], got in trouble if I started crying for anything [called a 'cry baby' and 'tattler' -- only recently have I been able to actually accept that crying isn't a BAD thing], and then later was told that I should be 'more open' with my emotions [by my mom- the same person who disciplined me...] and speak up when something is bothering me.

Perhaps it's a game of mixed messages and I'm just internally confused on how to handle certain situations like this. Most times, it's a matter of circumstance. I've got to be fed up, pissed off, and moody to lash out and tell somebody where to stick it. Otherwise, I'm patient to an extreme where the most I'll do is sigh, roll my eyes, and vent about it to somebody later.

Ironically, given your username, that is also the story of my life! In my twenties, I bought an apartment with a female friend who turned out to be a total B***h. EVERYTHING was ALWAYS about HER until I finally had enough, told her what I thought of her and terminated the friendship forever. She had no idea I would do that (INFJ doorslam) and tried to wheedle her way back in to my life, but I stuck to my guns (with a great deal of help from my ENTP and ENFP friends) and we went our separate ways, thank God.

It was one of the most rewarding things I've ever done as it taught me to stick up for myself and develop an assertive backbone. BTW I am also an enneagram type nine, with issues around repressing anger, even when it is appropriate to express it.
 

cascadeco

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sp/sx
I'm easy going, not easy to piss off, lenient. But I stand my ground, and don't let people push me around. I shove back. :devil:
It's been an unfortunate surprise for some.

I don't know if it's a question of type, but about how you're used to.. respond to people. What you've learned and the natural temperament. Sure the NF's in all are probably more empathetic, and so give in easier. But I don't think it's a rule or more prominent among some types.
But I could be wrong.

:yes:

I don't think I'm easily pushed around or controlled; however, I also don't think I'm that assertive in pushing back. My method is more passive and I tend to ignore or extricate myself from the situation or stop involving myself with the people. It's just not worth the effort to push back; if someone's lost my respect, I just won't deal with them anymore.

However, that's talking about overt control or mean-spiritedness. In the past I have been the victim of more emotional manipulation, on behalf of an ENxP (he tested as ENFP..not sure. Probable, but ENTP isn't out of the question either). That was much, much more subtle. It's only in retrospect that I recognize it, so am more wary of that sort of thing now.

Edit: And I definitely don't get pushed around by coworkers, and I remember in school too I was kind of fiercely guarded and wouldn't let people copy my homework or anything like that. :laugh:
 

lane777

nevermore
Joined
Oct 23, 2008
Messages
635
I have Dr Phil's voice echoing in my head : "people treat you the way you let them treat you."

True, but at the same time, every time I've confronted immature/mean behavior, they have only denied it. "Oh I didn't mean it that way!" Insulting my intelligence, as though I'd buy into their lie when they were so obviously being a meany. Which is why I've opted for inhumane treatment instead.

Yes and you bring it on yourselves.

ENFPs are easy going and not easily offended but we're just more proactive about not letting people abuse our warm personalities. INFJs are beautiful, warm, empathic people but my God you are gluttons for punishment. I have seen so many INFJs who only date assholes or whose best friends are total bitches.

You could have avoided this problem by not being an INFJ child in a family of types that naturally take advantage of that. There's nothing you can do about the past. Stop taking shit from people and if you have taken some serious shit in the past, give me their addresses and I will go over there with a machete. Someone needs get you INFJs away from these people.

:blush: How heroic of you! This calls for hugging :hug:

And your response was very helpful, thank-you.

you an enneagram 9?

i'm a 5w4 and acerbic enough to avoid this situation. altho i would say that openness and not being neurotic and guarded are probably better qualities. just make sure your feelings don't get lost in the shuffle.

Guilty :blushing: Yeah, I need to work on becoming more assertive.
 

StoryOfMyLife

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Oct 27, 2008
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Ironically, given your username, that is also the story of my life! In my twenties, I bought an apartment with a female friend who turned out to be a total B***h. EVERYTHING was ALWAYS about HER until I finally had enough, told her what I thought of her and terminated the friendship forever. She had no idea I would do that (INFJ doorslam) and tried to wheedle her way back in to my life, but I stuck to my guns (with a great deal of help from my ENTP and ENFP friends) and we went our separate ways, thank God.

It was one of the most rewarding things I've ever done as it taught me to stick up for myself and develop an assertive backbone. BTW I am also an enneagram type nine, with issues around repressing anger, even when it is appropriate to express it.

LOL You know, I think you're the second person to have referred to my username being apt for your own experience mirroring my own! Amazing... [I do believe the other was iwakar-- an INFJ also, right?].

The best friend I referred to ended up on my shit list forever when she moved in and decided to start dating the guy she knew I was like... in "love" with for the last six years of my regular school 'career'. I loved him as a friend and knew I felt something more for him, deeply, and I'm more than positive he was a fellow NF. After I moved out of my parents' apartment, I decided that it was time to own up to my feelings and try to tell this guy about it. My 'friend' encouraged me, said it was about time, and in true fashion to myself, I wrote a rather lengthy letter addressed to him. We all three hung out during my next visit and stupid me, I forgot to stealthily place the envelope into his mailbox [we used to live right across the street from each other-- our talks on IM would usually end up with him sneaking over to the apartment to have a chat face to face, late at night :)].

In any case, the next time I spoke to this supposed friend, she told me that my 'guy' had found somebody new and left very vague hints that told my gut she was dancing around telling me something important. Turns out, they had started to see each other shortly after my visit home and she said that I had absolutely no right to be upset at her for it because I was too chicken to tell him how I felt. In addition, it wouldn't have mattered if I told him because he wasn't interested in me anyway. Heavy blow to the ego,there and I told her that I just couldn't talk to her anymore. I very rarely come in contact with her and any time she tries to message me, I'm loathe to actually reply. It isn't a grudge against their relationship that I'm holding- everybody deserves to be happy [they are married now, have been for 3 years...]- it's what she did to me and how she attempted to lie about it and justify her actions.


I'm not sure how my enneagram affects how I let others treat me, but I'm a 4w5 as it says in my signature. I only remember the part about 4's having a bit of a 'tragic' history.
 

lane777

nevermore
Joined
Oct 23, 2008
Messages
635
LOL You know, I think you're the second person to have referred to my username being apt for your own experience mirroring my own! Amazing... [I do believe the other was iwakar-- an INFJ also, right?].

The best friend I referred to ended up on my shit list forever when she moved in and decided to start dating the guy she knew I was like... in "love" with for the last six years of my regular school 'career'. I loved him as a friend and knew I felt something more for him, deeply, and I'm more than positive he was a fellow NF. After I moved out of my parents' apartment, I decided that it was time to own up to my feelings and try to tell this guy about it. My 'friend' encouraged me, said it was about time, and in true fashion to myself, I wrote a rather lengthy letter addressed to him. We all three hung out during my next visit and stupid me, I forgot to stealthily place the envelope into his mailbox [we used to live right across the street from each other-- our talks on IM would usually end up with him sneaking over to the apartment to have a chat face to face, late at night :)].

In any case, the next time I spoke to this supposed friend, she told me that my 'guy' had found somebody new and left very vague hints that told my gut she was dancing around telling me something important. Turns out, they had started to see each other shortly after my visit home and she said that I had absolutely no right to be upset at her for it because I was too chicken to tell him how I felt. In addition, it wouldn't have mattered if I told him because he wasn't interested in me anyway. Heavy blow to the ego,there and I told her that I just couldn't talk to her anymore. I very rarely come in contact with her and any time she tries to message me, I'm loathe to actually reply. It isn't a grudge against their relationship that I'm holding- everybody deserves to be happy [they are married now, have been for 3 years...]- it's what she did to me and how she attempted to lie about it and justify her actions.


I'm not sure how my enneagram affects how I let others treat me, but I'm a 4w5 as it says in my signature. I only remember the part about 4's having a bit of a 'tragic' history.

Woah, that's sickening. I can't imagine many things worse than that scenario. Wounds from a friend hurt the most.
 

Apollanaut

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Aug 27, 2008
Messages
550
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9w1
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sx/sp
LOL You know, I think you're the second person to have referred to my username being apt for your own experience mirroring my own! Amazing... [I do believe the other was iwakar-- an INFJ also, right?].

The best friend I referred to ended up on my shit list forever when she moved in and decided to start dating the guy she knew I was like... in "love" with for the last six years of my regular school 'career'. I loved him as a friend and knew I felt something more for him, deeply, and I'm more than positive he was a fellow NF. After I moved out of my parents' apartment, I decided that it was time to own up to my feelings and try to tell this guy about it. My 'friend' encouraged me, said it was about time, and in true fashion to myself, I wrote a rather lengthy letter addressed to him. We all three hung out during my next visit and stupid me, I forgot to stealthily place the envelope into his mailbox [we used to live right across the street from each other-- our talks on IM would usually end up with him sneaking over to the apartment to have a chat face to face, late at night :)].

In any case, the next time I spoke to this supposed friend, she told me that my 'guy' had found somebody new and left very vague hints that told my gut she was dancing around telling me something important. Turns out, they had started to see each other shortly after my visit home and she said that I had absolutely no right to be upset at her for it because I was too chicken to tell him how I felt. In addition, it wouldn't have mattered if I told him because he wasn't interested in me anyway. Heavy blow to the ego,there and I told her that I just couldn't talk to her anymore. I very rarely come in contact with her and any time she tries to message me, I'm loathe to actually reply. It isn't a grudge against their relationship that I'm holding- everybody deserves to be happy [they are married now, have been for 3 years...]- it's what she did to me and how she attempted to lie about it and justify her actions.


I'm not sure how my enneagram affects how I let others treat me, but I'm a 4w5 as it says in my signature. I only remember the part about 4's having a bit of a 'tragic' history.

What a total cow! Manipulative and deceiful to the core.

No time to go into the full gory details of my own dysfunctional friend - just to say that she thought she had the right to control my life while I worked every hour to pay the mortgage on our apartment (she became sick and never worked again) AND do all the cleaning and shopping AND buy nice furniture for her to rest her fat lazy ass on. We were not lovers, just friends (I am gay) yet she treated me as if I owed her everything. And after all that she used to bitch about how useless I was to our mutual friends (who of course told me what she was saying). Well she made one demand too many until I finally snapped and told her what a good deal she had with me. She didn't listen and kept demanding more, so I door-slammed her out of my life forever.

Her Enneagram type was Two (very unhealthy example) and when I read about how Twos can spiral into dysfunction it was so accurate it was scary! Maybe your friend was of this type as well - it sounds likely. They pretend to be your best friend while sinking talons of control into your heart until they think they can work you like a puppet. Brrrr!
 

StoryOfMyLife

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What a total cow! Manipulative and deceiful to the core.

No time to go into the full gory details of my own dysfunctional friend - just to say that she thought she had the right to control my life while I worked every hour to pay the mortgage on our apartment (she became sick and never worked again) AND do all the cleaning and shopping AND buy nice furniture for her to rest her fat lazy ass on. We were not lovers, just friends (I am gay) yet she treated me as if I owed her everything. And after all that she used to bitch about how useless I was to our mutual friends (who of course told me what she was saying). Well she made one demand too many until I finally snapped and told her what a good deal she had with me. She didn't listen and kept demanding more, so I door-slammed her out of my life forever.

Her Enneagram type was Two (very unhealthy example) and when I read about how Twos can spiral into dysfunction it was so accurate it was scary! Maybe your friend was of this type as well - it sounds likely. They pretend to be your best friend while sinking talons of control into your heart until they think they can work you like a puppet. Brrrr!


Oh wow, that's really horrible! She sounds rather similar to my ex-friend in a manner that-- no matter how good they had it, they still found something to complain about, without thought as to what toll it might be taking on somebody else. I certainly don't blame you for pushing this one out of your life. She didn't deserve having you cater to her every need and then turn around and gripe about how you weren't useful. [Don't you love that, too? The context of the word 'useless' indicates that was all she saw you as- something to 'use' to her benefit...bah, hindsight!].

I know a healthy, ISFJ enneagram 2, and she's a fantastic lady [an older lady], but I could see this being the bad side of a 2 [and I'm debating on whether this old pal of mind was... a low 'I', that's for certain, and definitely a 'J'...perhaps an 'S', but I'm not certain. All I know is that the guy she married was most definitely an INfP...]
 

Apollanaut

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Oh wow, that's really horrible! She sounds rather similar to my ex-friend in a manner that-- no matter how good they had it, they still found something to complain about, without thought as to what toll it might be taking on somebody else. I certainly don't blame you for pushing this one out of your life. She didn't deserve having you cater to her every need and then turn around and gripe about how you weren't useful. [Don't you love that, too? The context of the word 'useless' indicates that was all she saw you as- something to 'use' to her benefit...bah, hindsight!].

I know a healthy, ISFJ enneagram 2, and she's a fantastic lady [an older lady], but I could see this being the bad side of a 2 [and I'm debating on whether this old pal of mind was... a low 'I', that's for certain, and definitely a 'J'...perhaps an 'S', but I'm not certain. All I know is that the guy she married was most definitely an INfP...]

One reason why I refer to Enneagram types a lot is becuase I consider that to be a much better system for gauging psychological health then the MBTI. As you've already pointed out, there is a world of difference between a healthy and an unhealthy individual of each ennea-type. Once you know your own type, you can use the "level of health" descriptions by Riso etc, to gauge where you fall on this scale, and get some idea what you have to do to move to higher levels of health. For more on this fascinating aspect of enneagram theory, check out this link:

Enneagram Levels of Development: Presentation at IEA Conference '04
 

tess2008

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Oct 24, 2008
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oh boy, as much as i try not to be the target to be pushed around and/ or controlled, I always am.

i just started university, and i made a lot of new friends very quickly (which was surprising, but good!! :)), but i can see that a lot of the reason they like me is because i am so overly complient and polite ALLL the time. one girl in particular, who i'm pretty sure is a borderline ENFP/ENTP, completely has it over me, and we both know it. as much as i feel like i am in control when i'm on my own, when i'm with others i go along with anything they ask, and i can't go against that. this girl has told me that she's decided she likes me most, and she's made me go and do things with her only, which is starting to alienate me from everyone else (which i don't want to happen). i am soooo passive!!! and she knows it, she's very, very quick, and i know she sees right through me. it bothers me, actually. i rarely have friendships in which i don't feel like i'm a tool or an item to be controlled and used.

i know what i want to say, but it never comes out right, and i end up sounding pathetic under people like this. it bothers me so much. she'll tell me something interesting and important to her, and i'll know what i want to say, but i'll just say (in response to everything) 'oh, that's so cool :).' and i'll be thinking to myself 'you sound like a complete idiot!!! :doh:'

I also find that she doesn't care about me or what i have to say. because i listen carefully to what she says, and she likes it when i respond to what she is talking about. when i try to start a conversation about something i find interesting, i notice that her eyes glaze a bit, she's not emotionally responsive at all, and she quickly shifts the subject back to herself. this is no new phenomenon though, it has happened to me my whole life. all my friendships have been based upon me fuelling other people's wants and needs. when it comes to my own interests and needs, i (used to be) rejected when i asked for others to share in what i wanted to do, and i never even try these days.

for instance, i never ask people to go shopping with me or go see a movie with me, i never throw a party. this is because i feel like people won't show up, or i'll bore them to death. i feel like people see me as an incredibly easy target. i think a lot of my problems result from my Fe, which I HATE. i hate accomadating everyone but myself, and never saying what i really think. this, i believe, is the main reason people think it would be the easiest thing in the world to take advantage of me.

something i just remembered that was interesting.. this ENFP/ENTP girl said to me, after she'd been talking to a shop assistant who really liked her, and was really nice to both of us (i was merely standing there, smiling and nodding) because of how bubbly/ talkative SHE was.

she said exactly what i was thinking, "you know, it's funny; people really like me and i stand out because the spotlight is always on me, but because you're with me, it's on you too."
 

invaderzim

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Oct 4, 2008
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you know, it's funny; people really like me and i stand out because the spotlight is always on me, but because you're with me, it's on you too."
:sick: I would have slapped her. She sounds annoying.


Don't worry your thinking function will kick in soon.
 

tess2008

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Oct 24, 2008
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hahah, i hope so. it did annoy me when she said it, but i can see the truth in it too. i just nodded and smiled when she said it. so very passive.. :steam:
 

Lauren Ashley

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:sick: I would have slapped her. She sounds annoying.

Yeah, you need a new friend.

Whenever I'm around strong extroverts I just become more extroverted and end up out-extroverting them. Especially with ENxPs; you will be tossed around in an Ne whirlwind if you do not engage your extroverted functions. Fe is not your issue, it would probably help if you used it more instead of settling comfortably in Ni. Fe will help you from fading into the background as you will be busy talking and laughing like a hyena :)
 
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