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  1. #21
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post
    Ne = ideas essentially. How are INFPs less idea based?
    cognitive functions are based on a developmental notion (over time) that there is a dominant function and then an auxilary function.

    for infj, the dominant is a perceiving function based on constructing ideas in the imagination. for infp, the dominant is using feeling tones, subjective values, emotional experiences, to weigh and prioritize judgment. your ne is not your dominant function, it works in accordance with the wishes of Fi. you are not an Enfp. they (dominant Ne) are far more idea based than infp (although as Ne far more tangible and less abstract than Ni).

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post
    No not really. I'm always on the look out for someone not being genuine or lying.
    the only thing you are saying is that you find me to be wrong, bad, immoral and inauthentic based on my ideas not jiving with your subjective values. you don't attempt to meet me and explain your perspective in terms of ideas. you are calling ideas generalizations (which they are, it is the nature of representational language and abstraction), and make no attempt to understand (map out) the complexities that would make these ideas accurate or inaccurate. in response you just say, i don't like the way you are trying to make me feel. i don't trust you, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by FireyPheonix View Post
    BTW INFP's are ideas based too, Values are based on ideas and concepts, that why we get called idealistic.
    We react first then break down the idea. I see your intentions aren't bad, but I think you have read too many profiles.
    i appreciate your feedback. i agree that ideas play a large part in the life of an infp. but, as stated above, it is far different. your values, feelings, internal resonances of emotion, etc, give birth to your ideas. ideas are an accessory to that, which, when the ideas are insightful, create a very impacting and explosively artistic type. but when they are not, they close out anything that does not fit with them.

    Quote Originally Posted by speculative View Post
    I would say, that I would not worry too much about which specific type you are in relation to art, except to help you recognize your strengths and weaknesses and thus to act as a starting point.
    this is exactly what i am trying to do. the insight i had felt very disillusioning at first, but i'm putting myself back together and re-arranging my values to fit with my ideas (what i view to be true, accurate, the best information i have available). and trying to merge my own (mal?)lingering desires, dreams, etc in line with what i feel like i can, ought, hope to do from here.

    Quote Originally Posted by speculative View Post
    I don't think being INFP makes one communicate emotion through art better than another type; in fact, it can sometimes be a hindrance that keeps you from seeing the forest for the trees...
    it totally depends on the medium and the perspective of the art. i was wallowing in self-pity bc... the TREES, the TREES. i know i see the forest. it is my greatest skill. but i felt disappointed and waxing nostalgic for a past that never existed bc i wanted to see the TREES, to look up at them from below and climb them with my eyes, to swing on the branches from limb to limb, to crash my flying kite into them and throw frisbees around them on frolf courses all across the land. etc.



    i also think it pertinent to mention that i understand infp generally doesn't like to be categorized by an objective idea that undermines or limits/clarifies its intentionally fuzzy boundaries in a way that threatens its subjective values and internally held beliefs, but i want to better understand this (which is the whole point of the thread in the first place).

  2. #22
    Senior Member Xellotath's Avatar
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    Now I'm an ENFP, and I know there's a lot of differences between us and INFPs.

    Me and my INFJ friend -just- got into this discussion not two weeks ago.
    He's a poet and a writer and he was telling how he could not -feel- like other poets did and that he was bitingly jealous of those whose feelings simply seemed to flow more smoothly.

    Our appreciation of art is almost completely different.

    Music: He will be entranced by the lyrics first, the symbols of the mood later. I will be momentarily overtaken by the overall -tone- of a song and build meaning immediately according to my imagination, and the visions that mood gives me - then integrate the actual lyrics. I tend to integrate the words faster if the lyrics are spoken clearly. But he focuses on them regardless of clarity.

    Poetry: Take for example, Sylvia Plath. Both of us are pretty much obsessed with her. He finds secret things in her work that I could only hope to find after a shot of vodka or two. I, on the other hand get literally transported to that asylum and through imagination alone enact and feel. When thinking of the belljar metaphor, I find myself there.. suffocating in my own insanity, feeling-imagining the brutality of hopelessness. He seems to take the long way there... it takes him awhile to dance around his own constructs.

    He is incapable of imagining red without the word red first.
    I see INFJ art as inherently bound by language itself.

    Do know, that the envy flows both ways.

    He has a certain clarity in his work, that I find undeniable and irresistible. A concreteness and truthfulness to the artistic concept that makes me feel like I'm not all that special for being easily emotionally moved - I feel a little cheap and common, to be honest.

    Not to mention I seek to inspire others with my art.. to feel like I am misleading others by my own natural vagueness feels like .... IaWetu3w490vyhtoeahra39yct234qht93a4wthpow3iaej

    ...it's painful and infuriating to say the least.


    Edit:

    It's funny. How both sides are so quick to throw the charge of inauthenticity at each other.

    A ) I am more conceptually correct!
    B ) Well, I feel the concepts more strongly!

    Which is more important? I'll leave that discussion on aesthetics to the philosophers.

  3. #23
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    this is a really helpful response.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xellotath View Post
    it takes him awhile to dance around his own constructs.
    yes! you are very very perceptive and i imagine a damn good friend.

    He is incapable of imagining red without the word red first.
    I see INFJ art as inherently bound by language itself.
    we need symbolization to access concentrated feeling. external symbols allow us to engage via Fe. we connect with things outside of ourselves more than we take our own internal temperature.

    He has a certain clarity in his work, that I find undeniable and irresistible. A concreteness and truthfulness to the artistic concept that makes me feel like I'm not all that special for being easily emotionally moved - I feel a little cheap and common, to be honest.
    insight is great, but passion is what moves men's hearts. both of course are needed.

  4. #24
    rawr Costrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    cognitive functions are based on a developmental notion (over time) that there is a dominant function and then an auxilary function.

    for infj, the dominant is a perceiving function based on constructing ideas in the imagination. for infp, the dominant is using feeling tones, subjective values, emotional experiences, to weigh and prioritize judgment. your ne is not your dominant function, it works in accordance with the wishes of Fi. you are not an Enfp. they (dominant Ne) are far more idea based than infp (although as Ne far more tangible and less abstract than Ni).
    Fi manipulates and judges ideas provided by Ne. Fe manipulates and judges ideas provided by Ni. Ne gathers ideas. Ni gathers ideas.

    Therefore, INFPs have more focus on manipulating the ideas they have, and less on gathering ideas. INFJs have more focus on gathering ideas, and less on developing them.

    Neither is superior. They are both equally "idea based", just have different focus on different aspects of the idea process. Gathering vs developing .
    "All humour has a foundation of truth."
    - Costrin

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireyPheonix View Post
    To the OP,
    Whether you like or not, every INFP is going to react badly to your post, the minute they see INFJ's are intellectuality superior.
    Great, I can write pretty poems, and draw pretty pictures, but I just can't think because I'm too busy being emo.
    And people wonder INFP's have such low self esteem.
    Your self-esteem shouldn’t depend on what people on a discussion board say about your type, for God’s sake. One could easily ruin a lot of lives here just by posting something like, “INFPs have more artistic talent than INFJs”. Not that this doesn’t make for fairly good entertainment.
    i believe that i am in hell, therefore i am there.
    –arthur rimbaud

  6. #26
    Riva
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    we ENTPs love art too you know.

    proof -


  7. #27
    lab rat extraordinaire CrystalViolet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mysterio View Post
    Your self-esteem shouldn’t depend on what people on a discussion board say about your type, for God’s sake. One could easily ruin a lot of lives here just by posting something like, “INFPs have more artistic talent than INFJs”. Not that this doesn’t make for fairly good entertainment.
    It shouldn't, but there isn't a whole lot of INFP love out there, here or out in the world.
    BTW, I didn't mean myself. I have loads of self esteem.
    Currently submerged under an avalanche of books and paper work. I may come back up for air from time to time.
    Real life awaits and she is a demanding mistress.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireyPheonix View Post
    It shouldn't, but there isn't a whole lot of INFP love out there, here or out in the world.
    BTW, I didn't mean myself. I have loads of self esteem.



    “Self-esteem” is one of those bubble gum self help-speak terms which makes me vaguely nauseous, that I end up being forced to use for convenience. All I meant to say is that people here in general, not just INFPs, overreact to things they don’t like that other people post about their types, as if they’re afraid this has some immense power to make them true. And to other stuff. On the Bullying thread someone made a remark which was obviously meant to be ironic, that people freaked out over. I won’t deny that such drama makes for more compelling reading, but a part of me wants to shout, girls, lighten up! Stop skipping your meds and therapy sessions.

    You do have a point about INFPs. They’re probably the least compatible with reality of all the types and have to do the most adapting to get by in the world. Whenever they fail at adjusting to “normal” people’s preferences, they’re viewed as boneheads or flakes. The chosen ones, the small minority of Stephen Kings who end up in some creative niche that pays the bills and pretty much have it made, are the exceptions.
    i believe that i am in hell, therefore i am there.
    –arthur rimbaud

  9. #29
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mysterio View Post
    “You do have a point about INFPs. They’re probably the least compatible with reality of all the types and have to do the most adapting to get by in the world. Whenever they fail at adjusting to “normal” people’s preferences, they’re viewed as boneheads or flakes. The chosen ones, the small minority of Stephen Kings who end up in some creative niche that pays the bills and pretty much have it made, are the exceptions.
    stephen king is the most distasteful example of infps who have made it- most of them end up od'ing young or going all salinger.

    also, give me your take on infj.

    finally, we take our feelings very seriously. our identities are predicated on our subjective values, feeling-tones, etc. what do you base your identity on, and why is identity such a less serious topic for you than it is for us?

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    stephen king is the most distasteful example of infps who have made it- most of them end up od'ing young or going all salinger.

    also, give me your take on infj.

    finally, we take our feelings very seriously. our identities are predicated on our subjective values, feeling-tones, etc. what do you base your identity on, and why is identity such a less serious topic for you than it is for us?

    The importance of your identity, feelings and what you think of Stephen King – though thanks a lot for sharing your opinion about him - were beside the point (sigh).
    i believe that i am in hell, therefore i am there.
    –arthur rimbaud

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