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  1. #31
    Was E.laur Laurie's Avatar
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    True that. I see ENFJ being much more the "support meeee" kind of person. And it pretty much happens how you explained it.

  2. #32
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    With an ENFP its all in the wording. "Nothing in those boxes is mine, and none of them are heavy, and I'm busy." sounds very harsh. This can come across as "its your crap why should I help you." Try wording things different. an ENFP lives to be independent, just say that something along the lines of "sure, once I get all this homework done I will be right there."

    ENFPs does this sound about right?
    Im out, its been fun

  3. #33
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
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    I don't necessarily think that this has much to do with ENFP. Lots of people want things in life and this doesn't always present a problem for them. It seems like what you're doing is focusing on the ENTIRE GOAL all at once, and that makes it look more intimidating. Then you get confused about where to begin because there is no ONE MOVE that will get you to your goal.

    I would guess (correctly, heh) that the solution is looking at your life as a series of stages with intermittent goals and flexibility, in the sense that you will sometimes move closer to your goals and other times move a little backwards. As long as you make good, smart, realistic decisions, you can maximize progress and minimize regression. You can try a little creative visualization where you imagine yourself at 70% of your goal, specifically, what your life looks like and what your face looks like as you go through life at 70%.

    Question for you: do most of the things you HAVE to do relate to duties you have to OTHERS? I ask because there's a transactional game called "Harried" where a housewife (typically) tries to load herself up with duties and responsibilities, juggling 18 different tasks in one day. Erick Berne believed that the point of the game was to allow the player to give everything up and turn bitter and angry. I'm not sure I fully agree, but there is a danger that when a person feels the need to "do everything," like you said in your post, that they're doing it for reasons other than self-fulfillment. Even if this isn't you, it's interesting.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elaur View Post
    True that. I see ENFJ being much more the "support meeee" kind of person. And it pretty much happens how you explained it.
    I missed the conversation. What came across is that it was expected of you, I tried to show the difference because from my experience with an ENFP I personally dont feel like it is expected, but I feel like with an ENFJ it is expected. I think my mom is ENFP and instead of saying you dont love me she would exagerate her sadness. With the dual relationship though it worked for me because it helped bring out my Fe towards those I love. In this case it might have hurt your Fi the way she handled it because she questioned how you feel. You feel manipulated and end up resenting the person. I know with my wife I was going down the resentment path because I started to feel like she used anger to manipulate me. I hit the breaking point because of my son and shut down my Fe before I ended up resenting her.

    I may speak like I know what I am talking about, but its all open and I know I cant tell you how you feel. Its just my understanding from what I have experienced and what info you have given. I know I am ISTP and generally dont pay attention to how I feel, but I have spent so much time recently trying to figure out something similiar on a personal level.
    Im out, its been fun

  5. #35
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poki View Post
    With an ENFP its all in the wording. "Nothing in those boxes is mine, and none of them are heavy, and I'm busy." sounds very harsh. This can come across as "its your crap why should I help you." Try wording things different. an ENFP lives to be independent, just say that something along the lines of "sure, once I get all this homework done I will be right there."

    ENFPs does this sound about right?
    Speaking as a supposed dual, what would I say to a request for moving boxes?

    Roughly the same as Blackcat.

    Except it'd be more like, "what for?" Followed by listening to the answer. Followed by saying, "Nuh, still don't wanna."

    ENFPs, being enthusiasts and project starters and whatnot, are not above the occasional reality check too.

    But that's me speaking as an old man, not a son. And not as a son who's INFP, and automatically uninspired by an ENFP's relative-to-an-I shallow version of having values, and is also stuck with his own self-sacrificing personality type. And is a teen.

    BlackCat, sorry lad, but you're screwed.

  6. #36
    Senior Member Tiny Army's Avatar
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    I have suggested that BlackCat's mother is an ENFJ before but he disagrees and she's his mum so I'm going to let him make that call.

    I don't expect help but I will ask for it if needed (i.e. "This box is roughly 2/3rds by body weight, will you help me carry it up the stairs because, though I may be small, I am not in fact an ant.") but for the most part I will try to do everything myself before I ask for help.

    I am fairly independent and the only time I make my boyfriend and roomates help out is when it comes to my cleaning of the house because dammit it's their house too and I am not the maid.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    Speaking as a supposed dual, what would I say to a request for moving boxes?

    Roughly the same as Blackcat.

    Except it'd be more like, "what for?" Followed by listening to the answer. Followed by saying, "Nuh, still don't wanna."

    ENFPs, being enthusiasts and project starters and whatnot, are not above the occasional reality check too.

    But that's me speaking as an old man, not a son. And not as a son who's INFP, and automatically uninspired by an ENFP's relative-to-an-I shallow version of having values, and is also stuck with his own self-sacrificing personality type. And is a teen.

    BlackCat, sorry lad, but you're screwed.

    Honestly you if you dont want to do it, then there really is nothing to say. Its all about the intention, not so much the action, thats why you can "String" them along. I could tell you what to say, but in the end you dont really want to do it for her so its really just stringing them along.

    Just because there values are different does not mean they're shallow. You obviously dont understand thier values. BlackCat likes to help his dad because he doesnt feel like he has to. The key to me telling BlackCat what to say is to avoid his mom from making him feel like he has to help. It seemed like the desire to help others was there, so in this case it is not to "String" her along, since ENFP value independence they understand when someone else is busy. The wording is hurtful, which can could have caused BlackCat to feel manipulated into doing things that he might have voluntarily done otherwise. And he said something that hurt his moms feelings. Avoid the hurt and see how things go.

    Like I said I am going by what I read and BlackCat seemed like he liked helping his dad because his dad didnt expect it, not because he didnt want to.
    Im out, its been fun

  8. #38
    Was E.laur Laurie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiny Army View Post
    I have suggested that BlackCat's mother is an ENFJ before but he disagrees and she's his mum so I'm going to let him make that call.
    I had the same feeling. One of my friends typed as ENFP. I knew she wasnt as did everyone else who knew us both. She is ENFJ and was so amazed by how exactly it was her.

    I agree also that it is his mom though so I bow to his information.

  9. #39
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
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    I'm going to have to do some more research/read my books' descriptions of ENFJ, because it's sounding about right now. I keep realizing that I keep stereotyping P/J when I type people, it's very hard to notice the things that really matter in this accord. My mom is pretty organized, but she always leaves the house a mess because she wants to do more and more. This is what lead me to thinking she was a P. Also now that I think of it she REALLY hates it when I make a few quick changes to something. Here is a classic example:

    I'm supposed to meet my mom at 4 o clock. "Mom I need 30 more minutes, I forgot about doing blah blah blah."

    Her: "Why Chris? You just lied to me, you SAID 4 o clock!"

    Me: "How is it a lie? I planned on arriving at 4 until this came up." Then she gets mad.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    what Kalach said...
    Yep it sucks being a teenager in this situation. My communication style is to the point and typically blunt, I don't like to make things last longer than they should. It sucks that my mom gets offended by it, she should have adjusted by now. All of my friends (I have a good amount of friends keep in mind) say that they don't really care when I do that and they know I don't mean to offend, it's just something I do. They've learned to not get offended when I tell them something straight up. I'm sure those of you who have seen me post see that I have an NT style of communication, which in my theory is from myself being borderline F/T. I really just can't help it.

    Also Kalach you said I'm screwed. Meh, I only see my mom for three days every two weeks, so it's not that bad. I'm screwed in most other areas though (just because I'm an INFP teen )

    As for the values it's more of a principal for me, I will help someone I care for if they appear to need help. If they ask for help then I will generally help if I'm not busy or if they really cannot handle it themselves and it needs to be done quickly then I will help them and get back to what I'm doing.

    By the way thanks for the posts. I need all the help I can get.
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

    sCueI (primary Inquisition)

  10. #40
    Was E.laur Laurie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post

    I'm supposed to meet my mom at 4 o clock. "Mom I need 30 more minutes, I forgot about doing blah blah blah."

    Her: "Why Chris? You just lied to me, you SAID 4 o clock!"

    Me: "How is it a lie? I planned on arriving at 4 until this came up." Then she gets mad.
    Oh my gosh my step mom used to do this. Misunderstanding /= lies. Geez.


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