[ENFP] ENFPs having to do it all?

[Poki]

Maybe I only think this because I'm also a teenager myself, but I disagree entirely. For anyone, they have to earn my respect, they don't automatically start out with it. This applies even to parents. Being born isn't a choice on the child's part. He didn't choose to be born, to have these parents. And taking care of a kid is the societal norm. That's what expected of you, what your supposed to do, so you should only get respect from your child if you prove that your worth it. Generally, most parents do though, but if the parent just does the minimum, or worse, then no, they aren't worthy of the child's respect.

In BlackCat's case, it seems (though we're only hearing one side) that his mom does not have the qualities of a good parent, and thus isn't worthy of respect in that regard.

The parent didnt choose your type though. Some types dont get together very well, some types dont understand the other person. As a child gets older they need to learn to try to be flexible also. We dont teach how to understand other people or how to bend with them and see there weaknesses so how do you expect the types that are not naturally good at those things to all of a sudden be good just because they become a parent? The kid will rebel, they have lived with it to the point where they dont want to change at all. There are 2 sides here.

 

[Poki]

I am so much like an ENFP, but the way we go about things is different. My goal in life is to be happy, nothing more, I just want to enjoy life. When life causes this happiness to fade, we will do what we know how to get it back to this point. For an ISTP we will simplify, we will try to become more efficient and it will not stop until we become finally find a way to enjoy life again. At some point we will say fuck it and just stop and let everything crash and start over. I think for an ENFP instead of trying to be more efficient you push to fix everything so you can relax and just be happy. The balance for an ENFP is that they do not rely on others so they will finally crash and have to reset. The good thing is that you are independent so when you crash you dont blame those around you for not doing enough to help you suceed. Its how we learn what we can handle and how far we can bend. This also causes us to be stronger as a person. I agree it sucks, but I can tell you when I crash is when I learn the most about myself.

 

[BlackCat]

The parent didnt choose your type though. Some types dont get together very well, some types dont understand the other person. As a child gets older they need to learn to try to be flexible also. We dont teach how to understand other people or how to bend with them and see there weaknesses so how do you expect the types that are not naturally good at those things to all of a sudden be good just because they become a parent? The kid will rebel, they have lived with it to the point where they dont want to change at all. There are 2 sides here.

It's not the kid's type, it's how the kid gets treated that influences how he respects the parent.

EDIT: To be specific about the topic's answer as to how to deal with your problem of having to do it all, you are going to have to pace yourself with everything you do. That's all you can do, you have to learn to do it though. It will take some time. Don't take it too much at a time either.

 

[Poki]

It's not the kid's type, it's how the kid gets treated that influences how he respects the parent.

EDIT: To be specific about the topic's answer as to how to deal with your problem of having to do it all, you are going to have to pace yourself with everything you do. That's all you can do, you have to learn to do it though. It will take some time. Don't take it too much at a time either.

Doesnt type play a big role in how we treat people? Learning someone types helps you understand that person and gives you the ability to see there strengths. It is human nature to treat others how we want to be treated, but I can tell you that some people dont want to be treated the same as me. I agree its how the kid gets treated, but certain types arent inclined to pick up how others feel. One thing learning MBTI is about is being able to understand people weakness and this allows you to forgive them. It helps you see why they did what they did. There are so many circumstances that come into play and we can only do what we know how. We are also limited by what we are taught, your parents were limited by there environment, do you have to respect them no. But understanding who they are and what they went through will help you love them. Everything in life happens for a reason and we are all influenced by the outside world, Our external percieving function is what is used by Ti/Fi to define who we are inside, put crap in, get crap out.

I dont know you circumstance and usually children who dont get along with there parents really get to understand there parents circumstance and what they went through especially if they dont understand type and dont understand why that person did what they did.

 

[BlackCat]

When you're living with someone all that really matters is that you get along with the person and you function somewhat the same. Parents and kids will naturally not function the same way because the parent is in an assumed position of leadership over the kid. Even if my mom was another INFP instead of an ENFP it would still be different. I know that MBTI is all about learning how to get along with people, but what if said people are just impossible? MBTI becomes useless. That's why it all boils down to parent-child for me, and in other cases it could boil down to employee-boss. No matter how much you understand how much your boss functions they will still be your boss.

I entirely understand my mom's situation and she understands mine. It doesn't really change much.

 

[Poki]

I know a drug addict that has been in and out of jail. Our first response is to judge them, possibly because they are weak. But once you see that they an ENFJ that grew up in a screwed up family, you start to see that thier dominant Fe drove them nuts because they kept trying to help and help and give everything they had. Nothing they tried worked so eventually they crashed and gave in, when they finally got things fixed they are still surrounded by all the crap and they just need to fix it all because of there Fe which caused them to hit a wall and give in. Who do you blame? They were never taught how to ignore there empathy and what tough love is. They never learned that people need to suffer so they can learn from there mistakes. They were so busy focusing on everyone that was screwed up and they didnt realize they were stepping on others in the process. When you get this screwed up how do you realize what you are doing to your kids?

Sorry this is extreme, but is very close to home. I am not the kid nor the parent, but someone I know and love very much is the kid. Before MBTI I didnt understand any of this, but after MBTI I see this person in a whole new light.

 

[BlackCat]

Did you read the rest of the thread? All of my problems with her are listed there basically, it all stems from the OP's topic of them taking too much on. When my mom takes too much on she expects me to help. It's not about function order or anything like that with what our disagreements come from.

 

[Poki]

When you're living with someone all that really matters is that you get along with the person and you function somewhat the same. Parents and kids will naturally not function the same way because the parent is in an assumed position of leadership over the kid. Even if my mom was another INFP instead of an ENFP it would still be different. I know that MBTI is all about learning how to get along with people, but what if said people are just impossible? MBTI becomes useless. That's why it all boils down to parent-child for me, and in other cases it could boil down to employee-boss. No matter how much you understand how much your boss functions they will still be your boss.

I entirely understand my mom's situation and she understands mine. It doesn't really change much.

If said people are impossible then you may be expecting way to much from them for the wrong things. You may be needing from them something they just dont know how to do. This is the strengths and weaknesses. My dad is ISTP. I dont go to him about certain things because I know he cant provide them to the level that I need, but I do recognize his strengths and when I need those I turn to him.

I am not trying to change your view, just trying to get you to see things from a different perspective. This is also me trying not to blame the person and blame the circumstances. When you blame the person you lose hope for that person, blaming the circumstance helps keep up your hope. I think this is my Fe.

 

[Poki]

Did you read the rest of the thread? All of my problems with her are listed there basically, it all stems from the OP's topic of them taking too much on. When my mom takes too much on she expects me to help. It's not about function order or anything like that with what our disagreements come from.

It is function though. My wife(ENFJ) blames me all the time because when she takes to much on she expects me to be her support and all hell breaks lose when I cant do it to her standards. I begged and pleaded with her to lower her standards to the point of leaving because I cant meet them and she expects me to meet them. Well her base(me) realized that in the process of helping her do everything that I was stepping on my kid and getting frustrated with him(no this is not related to the drug post above). When I realized i was stepping on my kid I cracked and hit the fuck it point fast, shortly after she crashed without my help and with the help of a counselor realized that she needs to learn her boundaries. It was ugly for years because I could not meet her expectations until eventually it all just crashed. Everything was my fault because she needed me and I couldnt do it. Everyone around her was telling her to slow down, but she wouldnt listen, she kept pushing and in the process kept expecting more and more. It is the personality type that causes the drive that you are speaking of.

 

[Poki]

The difference I have noticed with an ENFP and an ENFJ is that while both are bubbly and fun to be with and out going. An ENFJ needs a base of support and it is this base that they will end up stepping all over trying to get things done. At times stepping on the base even though it is the base that they are doing it for. An ENFP is very independent and does not expect someone to help them. They are the base. When an ENFJ stumbles they will blame it on the base, but when an ENFP eventually breaks they have no base to blame it on because they took it all on without expecting help.

 

[Laurie]

True that. I see ENFJ being much more the "support meeee" kind of person. And it pretty much happens how you explained it.

 

[Poki]

With an ENFP its all in the wording. "Nothing in those boxes is mine, and none of them are heavy, and I'm busy." sounds very harsh. This can come across as "its your crap why should I help you." Try wording things different. an ENFP lives to be independent, just say that something along the lines of "sure, once I get all this homework done I will be right there."

ENFPs does this sound about right?

 

[ThatsWhatHeSaid]

I don't necessarily think that this has much to do with ENFP. Lots of people want things in life and this doesn't always present a problem for them. It seems like what you're doing is focusing on the ENTIRE GOAL all at once, and that makes it look more intimidating. Then you get confused about where to begin because there is no ONE MOVE that will get you to your goal.

I would guess (correctly, heh) that the solution is looking at your life as a series of stages with intermittent goals and flexibility, in the sense that you will sometimes move closer to your goals and other times move a little backwards. As long as you make good, smart, realistic decisions, you can maximize progress and minimize regression. You can try a little creative visualization where you imagine yourself at 70% of your goal, specifically, what your life looks like and what your face looks like as you go through life at 70%.

Question for you: do most of the things you HAVE to do relate to duties you have to OTHERS? I ask because there's a transactional game called "Harried" where a housewife (typically) tries to load herself up with duties and responsibilities, juggling 18 different tasks in one day. Erick Berne believed that the point of the game was to allow the player to give everything up and turn bitter and angry. I'm not sure I fully agree, but there is a danger that when a person feels the need to "do everything," like you said in your post, that they're doing it for reasons other than self-fulfillment. Even if this isn't you, it's interesting.

 

[Poki]

True that. I see ENFJ being much more the "support meeee" kind of person. And it pretty much happens how you explained it.

I missed the conversation. What came across is that it was expected of you, I tried to show the difference because from my experience with an ENFP I personally dont feel like it is expected, but I feel like with an ENFJ it is expected. I think my mom is ENFP and instead of saying you dont love me she would exagerate her sadness. With the dual relationship though it worked for me because it helped bring out my Fe towards those I love. In this case it might have hurt your Fi the way she handled it because she questioned how you feel. You feel manipulated and end up resenting the person. I know with my wife I was going down the resentment path because I started to feel like she used anger to manipulate me. I hit the breaking point because of my son and shut down my Fe before I ended up resenting her.

I may speak like I know what I am talking about, but its all open and I know I cant tell you how you feel. Its just my understanding from what I have experienced and what info you have given. I know I am ISTP and generally dont pay attention to how I feel, but I have spent so much time recently trying to figure out something similiar on a personal level.

 

[Kalach]

With an ENFP its all in the wording. "Nothing in those boxes is mine, and none of them are heavy, and I'm busy." sounds very harsh. This can come across as "its your crap why should I help you." Try wording things different. an ENFP lives to be independent, just say that something along the lines of "sure, once I get all this homework done I will be right there."

ENFPs does this sound about right?

Speaking as a supposed dual, what would I say to a request for moving boxes?

Roughly the same as Blackcat.

Except it'd be more like, "what for?" Followed by listening to the answer. Followed by saying, "Nuh, still don't wanna."

ENFPs, being enthusiasts and project starters and whatnot, are not above the occasional reality check too.

But that's me speaking as an old man, not a son. And not as a son who's INFP, and automatically uninspired by an ENFP's relative-to-an-I shallow version of having values, and is also stuck with his own self-sacrificing personality type. And is a teen.

BlackCat, sorry lad, but you're screwed.

 

[Tiny Army]

I have suggested that BlackCat's mother is an ENFJ before but he disagrees and she's his mum so I'm going to let him make that call.

I don't expect help but I will ask for it if needed (i.e. "This box is roughly 2/3rds by body weight, will you help me carry it up the stairs because, though I may be small, I am not in fact an ant.") but for the most part I will try to do everything myself before I ask for help.

I am fairly independent and the only time I make my boyfriend and roomates help out is when it comes to my cleaning of the house because dammit it's their house too and I am not the maid.

 

[Poki]

Speaking as a supposed dual, what would I say to a request for moving boxes?

Roughly the same as Blackcat.

Except it'd be more like, "what for?" Followed by listening to the answer. Followed by saying, "Nuh, still don't wanna."

ENFPs, being enthusiasts and project starters and whatnot, are not above the occasional reality check too.

But that's me speaking as an old man, not a son. And not as a son who's INFP, and automatically uninspired by an ENFP's relative-to-an-I shallow version of having values, and is also stuck with his own self-sacrificing personality type. And is a teen.

BlackCat, sorry lad, but you're screwed.

Honestly you if you dont want to do it, then there really is nothing to say. Its all about the intention, not so much the action, thats why you can "String" them along. I could tell you what to say, but in the end you dont really want to do it for her so its really just stringing them along.

Just because there values are different does not mean they're shallow. You obviously dont understand thier values. BlackCat likes to help his dad because he doesnt feel like he has to. The key to me telling BlackCat what to say is to avoid his mom from making him feel like he has to help. It seemed like the desire to help others was there, so in this case it is not to "String" her along, since ENFP value independence they understand when someone else is busy. The wording is hurtful, which can could have caused BlackCat to feel manipulated into doing things that he might have voluntarily done otherwise. And he said something that hurt his moms feelings. Avoid the hurt and see how things go.

Like I said I am going by what I read and BlackCat seemed like he liked helping his dad because his dad didnt expect it, not because he didnt want to.

 

[Laurie]

I have suggested that BlackCat's mother is an ENFJ before but he disagrees and she's his mum so I'm going to let him make that call.

I had the same feeling. One of my friends typed as ENFP. I knew she wasnt as did everyone else who knew us both. She is ENFJ and was so amazed by how exactly it was her.

I agree also that it is his mom though so I bow to his information.

 

[BlackCat]

I'm going to have to do some more research/read my books' descriptions of ENFJ, because it's sounding about right now. I keep realizing that I keep stereotyping P/J when I type people, it's very hard to notice the things that really matter in this accord. My mom is pretty organized, but she always leaves the house a mess because she wants to do more and more. This is what lead me to thinking she was a P. Also now that I think of it she REALLY hates it when I make a few quick changes to something. Here is a classic example:

I'm supposed to meet my mom at 4 o clock. "Mom I need 30 more minutes, I forgot about doing blah blah blah."

Her: "Why Chris? You just lied to me, you SAID 4 o clock!"

Me: "How is it a lie? I planned on arriving at 4 until this came up." Then she gets mad.

what Kalach said...

Yep it sucks being a teenager in this situation. My communication style is to the point and typically blunt, I don't like to make things last longer than they should. It sucks that my mom gets offended by it, she should have adjusted by now. All of my friends (I have a good amount of friends keep in mind) say that they don't really care when I do that and they know I don't mean to offend, it's just something I do. They've learned to not get offended when I tell them something straight up. I'm sure those of you who have seen me post see that I have an NT style of communication, which in my theory is from myself being borderline F/T. I really just can't help it.

Also Kalach you said I'm screwed. Meh, I only see my mom for three days every two weeks, so it's not that bad. I'm screwed in most other areas though (just because I'm an INFP teen )

As for the values it's more of a principal for me, I will help someone I care for if they appear to need help. If they ask for help then I will generally help if I'm not busy or if they really cannot handle it themselves and it needs to be done quickly then I will help them and get back to what I'm doing.

By the way thanks for the posts. I need all the help I can get.

 

[Laurie]

I'm supposed to meet my mom at 4 o clock. "Mom I need 30 more minutes, I forgot about doing blah blah blah."

Her: "Why Chris? You just lied to me, you SAID 4 o clock!"

Me: "How is it a lie? I planned on arriving at 4 until this came up." Then she gets mad.

Oh my gosh my step mom used to do this. Misunderstanding /= lies. Geez.