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View Poll Results: do you have the same dilemma/questions like me?

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  • yes, constantly

    7 87.50%
  • somewhat, but not too much

    1 12.50%
  • no, very rarely to never

    0 0%

Results 1 to 8 of 8

  1. #1
    Senior Member niki's Avatar
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    Default NF dilemma: Art versus real-world

    (again, i've originally posted in INFPgc forum, but i'm also curious as how people in this forum would respond to this dilemma, as i'm sure also that this is a dilemma not just to NFs, but probably NFs in generals. please discuss. thanks)

    I've noticed several threads running here that essentially talks about the same thing, and even I myself am currently still having this troubling dilemma, and yet it has caused so much fear, doubt, and worse of all, procrastination & long time of inactions on my creative part, that ironically only made me feel much worse & helpless, like I can't do anything and only depend on the circumstances put upon me.

    And the dilemma that I have (and also I'm sure a lot of NFs would be able to relate a lot here) is the Art versus "real-world".

    What it is, is basically about our seemingly epic struggle to choose between these two extremes:
    1. Creating a FREE art where nobody can ever dictate us
    2. Creating an art that has to be 'usable' in "real-world"'s notions, ie: art that would or could "make money only" , art according to the expectations of other people, especially the 'big' key people usually in our organization, or corporation.

    It has essentially been the same ever-going-and-disturbing dilemma of me, thinking of what should I really do with my so-called immense music passion & talent.
    Unfortunatelly, doubts & fears of this dilemma have clouded me so much, that I've felt that I've become the king of procrastination in it: it's been a while I've created or made any new compositions, although more & more people every day (online and offline) kept saying super-positive things after hearing my music compositions, and even encourage me a lot..

    But these questions would often come & haunt me again:
    "what is the point to create a piece of Art (in my case, Music) that wouldn't sell , and hence, made me broke ??"
    "how would I make my parents proud if I become a penniless artist ?? "
    "what is the point of creating a piece of Art , that later on would only be criticized by 'big key people' in the industry as being "not going to sell", or not according to the mainstream/commercial standard of now with its pre-made 'formula' ?"
    "what is the point of creating a very-honest piece of Art, whereas the society only seems to want 'shallow' pieces , and that even sells a lot like crazy compared to those honest Art (ie: mainstream rap about blink-blink world, cars, 'bitches', compared to soulful jazz or indie-pop about peace, meanings of life, for example)
    etc

    All these questions have seriously instilled so much FEARS & DOUBTS (as usual the case with INFPs ), that what's worse is, I've almost stopped making Art (music) anymore.. Yet, I am still currently stuck at a job where I dislike so much and have zero passion (ie: my furniture factory job) , because I am too afraid to move-out from my comfort-zone to be a 'penniless/broke musician' .

    Anybody here experiencing the similar or same dilemma with me (in many artistic fields) ?
    Is there any way out to combat and eliminate all these ever-present questions, fears & doubts ?
    What is the best practical solution, according to you, who have conquered all these fears & doubts ?

  2. #2
    Resident Snot-Nose GZA's Avatar
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    Default

    I have a similar case but the difference with mine is that the kind of music I want to create does have pop sensibilities that could appeal to a wide audience... I don't want to make watered-down, crappy pop, but I do want to make good, meaningful music with lots of pop sensibilities and simplicity. I'm also still living at home in high school, so it's not quite an issue yet.

    It would be silly to think I could really answer your questions because I havn't experienced what you are experiencing yet, but it sounds like you will need to look at it simply, sensibly, and practically; is it possible for you to make a living in music? If yes, then go make it happen, if not, find another way life can be enjoyed, cause it must exist somewhere.

  3. #3
    Junior Member INF?2121's Avatar
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    Default

    Feel pretty much the same way. I would love to be in some kind of alternative band and/or produce/DJ my own electronic music, but its like I procrastinate like crazy. I was supposed to get a new macbook to help with the producing aspect, but had to hold off and it put a damper on my enthusiasm for wanting to take a serious stab for it. Of course like you, I am also contemplating why even bother. Most people will probably write off the electronic music as maybe catchy, something they can dance to while they're crunk or whatever, but will not truly see the clear message of my musical tastes. Sigh...

  4. #4
    Feelin' FiNe speculative's Avatar
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    Default

    I think this may be a subset of the questions you have, but I am constantly questioning whether what I write has value. I've written sci-fi, fantasy, and speculative fiction. (That's where my username comes from...) I enjoy writing fantasy in a similar fashion to how I enjoy reading it, but I always feel like I should be doing more with my writing, like making political statements or delving into various facets of society. For example, covering topics that a Harlan Ellison might touch upon rather than writing an adventure/action tale like Robert Jordan might write.

    I can definitely see the point in both. I enjoy action films, but a film like The Matrix does not illuminate the human soul like a film such as Lost in Translation can. I think there is a time and place for both kinds of art/art-as-entertainment, but I am always bothered when a write "light" fare rather than trying to achieve something deeper. I am always embarrassed to talk about what I'm writing when I'm working on an adventure/fantasy piece vs. when I am trying to do something more "literary."

    So, I guess this is similar to your questions in that the "light" fare seems to sell better these days than the heavier pieces, whether it's music, writing, visual art, etc. However, I don't look at the money aspect as I think it's unrealistic of me to think that I'd ever make a dime from writing. That being said, I try to think of the value of it existing for its own sake if no one ever reads it, or the value of it if only a few ever read it. I suppose I shouldn't think this way, since writing for entertainment's sake should be no different than doing another activity for entertainment's sake...
    "How can I be, all I want to be,
    When all I want to do is strip away these stilled constraints
    And crush this charade, shred this sad, masquerade"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGeq5v7L3WM

  5. #5
    Member tess2008's Avatar
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    Default

    oh i grapple with this allll the time!!
    because to me, what i love and want to do in my life is oh so clear to me and it basically involves transferring all the beauty i see in the world (which i think is a beauty most other people don't see as beautiful, and don't recognise as clearly as i do, and that makes me want to share it with the world even more, and i see that as being a very valuable contribution), and the path i want to take is so clear to me, and sometimes i'm so excited about the life i want and then i realise that it just doesn't correspond to the way the world is and the way it needs me to be. and then i feel really ashamed and scared of the way i want to live, and then i start to wonder if anyone else in the world would actually care about anything i think is so important. then i feel the pressures of the world: you need a steady job, income, security (which is sooo important!! the world can leave you homeless, and so vunerable). i know i need to have and do these things to even survive succesfully.

    all i really ever wanted to do was write and paint and make music. i know i was MEANT to do this, and the world does force you to question that something that i think comes to some of us so naturally.

    just an example; at the moment the fringe festival is happening (an arts/ drama/ street theatre/ comedy event), and i find everything about it the best and most amazing thing ever , i love it so much, and it happens once a year and i spend all my time and money on it. but nobody around me appreciates the beauty of something that art has created, and i find myself alone, seeing events and stand up acts and lighting displays all alone at midnight. and i want to be a part of it more than anything! and then i realise; *oh no, how am i going to get home? i have hardly enough money for a bus home!! last night all these creepy guys followed me to the bus stop. i have work tommorow morning!!*


  6. #6

    Default

    Life and the world are art. It's funny, I used to define almost every crime under the destruction of art category.

    Would be like, "You are on trial for murder one."... "no! he destroyed beauty!"
    Freude, schöner Götterfunken Tochter aus Elysium, Wir betreten feuertrunken, Himmlische, dein Heiligtum! Deine Zauber binden wieder Was die Mode streng geteilt; Alle Menschen werden Brüder, Wo dein sanfter Flügel weilt.

  7. #7
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    Default

    this and relationships are pretty much the only two things i care about.

    this defines me alone more than anything else. probably the main reason i'm interested in mbti is to better understand and cultivate my own creative process.

    constructing the most creatively fertile and supportive environment, lifestyle, etc is really difficult in this world. at times you are gonna have to accept that you are doing what you love and what you are here for and let go of the things you can't be/can't have bc of the choices you have made. as long as you make the right ones, you can't argue with that. when you realize that choices MUST be made and you can't have everything, it becomes easier to let go.

    as far as mainstream success goes, if you feel that you have something to say, to express, do it. the world needs balance. that is the reason why all of the diversity in mbti exists at all. each type has an aspect of human life that it best expresses- we need to hear it!- and the dimension and breadth of human experience would shrink and it would be a suffocating dystopian nightmare.

    plus, media connects and supports people who have no physical tangible place/face to turn to. do it for the whole, but for them as well, all of the other endless incarnations of your self floating around out there with its stream of mutation and difference.

  8. #8
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by niki View Post
    (again, i've originally posted in INFPgc forum, but i'm also curious as how people in this forum would respond to this dilemma, as i'm sure also that this is a dilemma not just to NFs, but probably NFs in generals. please discuss. thanks)

    I've noticed several threads running here that essentially talks about the same thing, and even I myself am currently still having this troubling dilemma, and yet it has caused so much fear, doubt, and worse of all, procrastination & long time of inactions on my creative part, that ironically only made me feel much worse & helpless, like I can't do anything and only depend on the circumstances put upon me.

    And the dilemma that I have (and also I'm sure a lot of NFs would be able to relate a lot here) is the Art versus "real-world".

    What it is, is basically about our seemingly epic struggle to choose between these two extremes:
    1. Creating a FREE art where nobody can ever dictate us
    2. Creating an art that has to be 'usable' in "real-world"'s notions, ie: art that would or could "make money only" , art according to the expectations of other people, especially the 'big' key people usually in our organization, or corporation.

    It has essentially been the same ever-going-and-disturbing dilemma of me, thinking of what should I really do with my so-called immense music passion & talent.
    Unfortunatelly, doubts & fears of this dilemma have clouded me so much, that I've felt that I've become the king of procrastination in it: it's been a while I've created or made any new compositions, although more & more people every day (online and offline) kept saying super-positive things after hearing my music compositions, and even encourage me a lot..

    But these questions would often come & haunt me again:
    "what is the point to create a piece of Art (in my case, Music) that wouldn't sell , and hence, made me broke ??"
    "how would I make my parents proud if I become a penniless artist ?? "
    "what is the point of creating a piece of Art , that later on would only be criticized by 'big key people' in the industry as being "not going to sell", or not according to the mainstream/commercial standard of now with its pre-made 'formula' ?"
    "what is the point of creating a very-honest piece of Art, whereas the society only seems to want 'shallow' pieces , and that even sells a lot like crazy compared to those honest Art (ie: mainstream rap about blink-blink world, cars, 'bitches', compared to soulful jazz or indie-pop about peace, meanings of life, for example)
    etc

    All these questions have seriously instilled so much FEARS & DOUBTS (as usual the case with INFPs ), that what's worse is, I've almost stopped making Art (music) anymore.. Yet, I am still currently stuck at a job where I dislike so much and have zero passion (ie: my furniture factory job) , because I am too afraid to move-out from my comfort-zone to be a 'penniless/broke musician' .

    Anybody here experiencing the similar or same dilemma with me (in many artistic fields) ?
    Is there any way out to combat and eliminate all these ever-present questions, fears & doubts ?
    What is the best practical solution, according to you, who have conquered all these fears & doubts ?
    If you sell out, you have nothing left.

    Find the money outside your field.
    Never mix the two.

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