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  1. #1
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    Default inf complexity and communication

    very specifically- i think infj has the most difficulty communicating of any type with infp close behind.

    infp can't articulate its feelings and values, they are decidedly private and deliberately fuzzy. they exist internally and their articulation only happens in the rarest of occasions (art, saintly gestures, etc). plus they feel themselves more clearly and use that as an extremely powerful internal compass. they live out their ideals and suffer their contradictions. they embody or become or perform them, acting them out, and discover the boundaries of their values thru experience and experimentation.

    infj is relying on Ni to formulate its thought, speech, and feeling. Ni is the worst form giver possible, bc it is only a glimpse of something, a revelation, an illumination that can be held together only for a second. you're trying to construct logically flowing (yet unbastardized) meaningful speech out of Fe and Ti when the only thing you have to go on is an invisible holograph that you sort of feel but can't really reconstruct or remember.

    not to mention that infj needs more desperately than infp to explicitly articulate and express its understandings. it is its whole mode of operation, its whole reason for existing, raison d'etre. to symbolize it, to create a meaningful artifact out of it, to congeal it into something powerful that will explode and impact everything around it.

    personally, all my life it's like i've been staring at this picture far off in the distance or this shape in the clouds that i can't fully see, and it's all i ever want to talk about. i want to grasp it finally and completely with total conviction and understanding. but i don't even know what it is, can't see it, don't even remember half the time where to look...

  2. #2
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    These are interesting comments.

    I think the part about acting out my contradictions was painfully true for me when I was younger. Believe I've even mentioned recently that in order to discover my boundaries I've needed to violate them.


    But I believe that all my life, whether I was clear on my opinions or not, I was not private about them.

    I think I understand about that "place" somewhere out there and the desire to reach that spot.

    I'm wondering if this may not be a factor that INFs have in common in early development. The first I became aware of that mystical goal was when I was four.
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

  3. #3
    a scream in a vortex nanook's Avatar
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    i think intuition is all about patterns (form giving). therefore i think i can express myself better than most, except they don't understand anything that is based on causal forms (movements).

    there is some truth to the "hold together for only one second"... this should be enough to download the form into language, but it depends on language skill, and in my case this requires language anarchy, that is to say i can not be bothered with paying attention to the beauty of language or its spelling, because it would destroy my clarity about the content (patter/form) that i am communicating.

    i have noticed, that SiFe and NiFe individuals who may be less intelligent or just younger than me, or less daring in using language in their own way (inventing a word now and then), are in deed incapable of saying much.

    they would throw in thousand paragraphs consisting of a single sentence each. and some images. and i can connect it all, but other people clearly don't get it. often they are so afraid of the chaos of associations, that they think it is trolling, or "borderline" as in "he/she cant be understood by common sense, how terrible, therefore he/she needs, professional help, get him/her out of the message board" LOL

    writing something helps a lot, cause focusing is harder in a group or one on one dialog, but its possible.

    in the case of a close relationship i do suffer a lot from not "feeling myself", that is so say, i believe that i have to communicate Fi values, because i am talking to an Fi person (and being Fe i want to relate by being alike), but i just dont have them. this can be helped, if understood. i dont have to have any. its common that the other person would rather accept, that i can not come up with clear judgments about what i want, in that particular moment, than i would be ready to accept it.


    not to mention that infj needs more desperately than infp to explicitly articulate and express its understandings.

    [...]

    personally, all my life it's like i've been staring at this picture far off in the distance or this shape in the clouds that i can't fully see, and it's all i ever want to talk about. i want to grasp it finally and completely with total conviction and understanding. but i don't even know what it is, can't see it, don't even remember half the time where to look...
    this should be common to all intuitive types (albeit for some to a slightly lesser degree), it should be the same for an NiFe (if you are realy FiNe as you seem to think).

    it is different for isfp (SiFe) and enfj (FeNi)

  4. #4
    Earth Exalted Thursday's Avatar
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    *
    I N V I C T U S

  5. #5
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
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    SiFe = ISFJ. ISFP = FiSe.

    I can agree that I generally have difficulty saying what I want to say sometimes, but in general I can just give it to people straight, even if it's pretty abstract. I often find people liking me just for being myself, so I really don't have many problems in the communication area.
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

    sCueI (primary Inquisition)

  6. #6
    half-nut member briochick's Avatar
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    You make some good points.

    I think I felt like that as an adolescent and perhaps unable to express my visions as a child but as a child I was talkative and I've picked it back up as an adult. I find that (usually) I'm pretty good at expressing how I feel and what my visions are. They can get very abstract but that's where allusion and illistration comes in. Not that I don't confuse people, I'm not a linear thinker and neither am I a linear speaker. I think Ne helps.
    -Brio

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  7. #7
    a scream in a vortex nanook's Avatar
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    obviously i like to use the 4 letter code of socionics, so i am allways adding the functions, so i think i don't need to be "corrected". please disagree silently.

    as for real life communication, it helps me with focusing, if i put my index finger on my "third eye" (whatever), giving some pressure. its a weird thing to do. weird as in Jeremy Davies

  8. #8
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nanook View Post
    obviously i like to use the 4 letter code of socionics, so i am allays adding the functions, so i think i don't need to be "corrected". please disagree silently.
    I didn't realize you used socionics, sorry.

    I think INFJs have an easier time communicating once they get in touch with their Ti, my INFJ best friend is well in touch with it and he has no social problems whatsoever.
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

    sCueI (primary Inquisition)

  9. #9
    a scream in a vortex nanook's Avatar
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    i had a good deal of weird metaphysical discussions with infx (where x is the opposite on mine x, whichever that one really is) and i think we have about the same trouble understanding each other. really language sucks. for both of us. differently but equally much. to the point where i had to use my arms, to imitate a boxer's movement, which was supposed to be a metaphor for intuition. she claimed to understand me

  10. #10
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    I feel like INFs, especially INFJs, tend to have more complex/wacky/crazy/pet theory/incomplete ideas going on in their head than they are able to communicate efficiently, sometimes because they don't feel like their thought will make sense to other people or that it will be received well. While INTs, have an easier time expressing the fringe nuttyness going on in their mind in a somewhat absorbable and rational way.

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