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Thread: inf complexity and communication

  1. #21


    also intuition is like a kaleidoscope of perspectives or relations. if language could capture its currents state it would take a whole book, but its sort of not worth it, because you will move it around a moment later. also that book is not meant to be written. intuition is never finalized. anything that is meant to be finalized (and written into a book) is not supposed to be anything like "pure intuition?" it's structure is originating in intuition, but it's content must be a fusion with other domains, other means, other validations. intuition is creative, it is guesswork, architecture, it is a total contradiction to finalization (validation)

    (i am probably talking about introverted intuition)

    i think it was terence mckenna who had this funny ideas about how we might enter a trans personal realm and learn to sing something like mental songs, that manifest visual telepathic patterns, where everyone in the choir contributes to the creation of the moving pattern.

  2. #22


    Both my exes complained about my communication and how it failed... My counsellor never had any problem with it, I think she was listening more with intuition than anything else - they didn't have that "level" - I do get frustrated when I communicate as people do not "listen" to my undertones as I listen to theirs... My current man an ISTP manages to listen a lot more, still there are times when it doesn't "click" then I try to change how I am saying things... It is difficult!

  3. #23
    The Black Knight Array Domino's Avatar
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    You know, State, I *still* have yet to figure out what Ni does for me except confuse me and cause me to catch on waaaaay after everyone else. haha! Niiiiiice.

    My Fe is in charge, but my Ni is constantly pointing and shouting 'What's THAT?! That thing there?! WTH?! Was that always there?! I feel funny!! omgbbqwtf!?'

  4. #24
    Minister of Propagandhi Array ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PinkPiranha View Post
    You know, State, I *still* have yet to figure out what Ni does for me except confuse me and cause me to catch on waaaaay after everyone else. haha! Niiiiiice.

    My Fe is in charge, but my Ni is constantly pointing and shouting 'What's THAT?! That thing there?! WTH?! Was that always there?! I feel funny!! omgbbqwtf!?'
    That's kind of how I view Ni. Though some people seem to enjoy it.

  5. #25
    RETIRED Array CzeCze's Avatar
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    I'll try to be more helpful later but for now I will say:

    IRL interactions INFPs are by far poorer communicators (with me) than INFJs.

    I think INFJs at the least are exacting? Or have higher standards and awareness of how well their idea or thought is being interpreted by the other person.

    It is much easier for me to start conversations with INFJs than with INFPs.

    I think INFJs think they aren't doing a good job at communicating, perhaps because the direction they want the conversation to go isn't what they wanted - however, it's not because they did a poor job explaining themselves.INFJs I know are pretty good at bouncing back and reacting to the things I say and keeping a conversation going. Conversations with INFJs feel more directed.

    The INFPs I have been friends with, dated, and lived with - they especially had a hard time communicating their desires and displeasure. From things as simple as where they wanted a potted plant to go in the house or what time they want to meet for dinner to more anxiety-inducing things like if they wanted to continue dating you or explaining how they felt about their ex's.

    They often wanted me (and they told me this themselves so I'm not projecting!) to "be able to tell" what they wanted. Or they "thought it was obvious what I really wanted to do because I did X, Y, Z so even though I said A, B, C [if you really cared about me] you would know what I really wanted to do". Supremely frusrating.

    I also think much moreso than the INFJs I have known, that the INFPs felt they were misunderstood. Because they were! The feeling that I got was that INFJ's took what you said more seriously or did something with it internally with their INFJ-ness (Ni?) and process it whereas INFPs were more likely to store it, as is, in their inner Fi sea. If that makes sense.

    As far as the kookiness, out there, and 'depth' factor of what INFX's want to talk about -- that hasn't been an issue at all. We're pretty in sync with that.
    “If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.” ― Oscar Wilde

    "I'm outtie 5000" ― Romulux


  6. #26
    Member Array Nyota's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    I feel like INFs, especially INFJs, tend to have more complex/wacky/crazy/pet theory/incomplete ideas going on in their head than they are able to communicate efficiently, sometimes because they don't feel like their thought will make sense to other people or that it will be received well. While INTs, have an easier time expressing the fringe nuttyness going on in their mind in a somewhat absorbable and rational way.
    SO true.
    INFj. 4w5.
    Friendship is born at that moment when one person says to another, 'What! You too? I thought I was the only one!'
    --C.S. Lewis

  7. #27
    Senior Member Array the state i am in's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PinkPiranha View Post
    You know, State, I *still* have yet to figure out what Ni does for me except confuse me and cause me to catch on waaaaay after everyone else. haha! Niiiiiice.

    My Fe is in charge, but my Ni is constantly pointing and shouting 'What's THAT?! That thing there?! WTH?! Was that always there?! I feel funny!! omgbbqwtf!?'
    i think of Ni at its best as an ability to keep reaching higher and higher levels of abstraction. bc it sees connections between many different layers of meaning and glimpses it momentarily as a very penetrating yet complex truth (Big Picture).

    but if it doesn't have any good information, it just feels cold and prickly- bc you know that, not only do you NOT KNOW AT ALL, but that you also can't even sense where to begin looking. this is where, for infjs, Ti helps and why this problem never happens to intps. who are more flexibile and store their knowledge/understandings in much more practical, accessible, generally more productive, ready-at-hand ways.

    for an enfj i would imagine that Ni would show itself more in the service of actions and activities than in thoughts. infj is so introverted that most time is spent in pause mode, thinking, and NOT in participating and developing reliable instincts, habits, etc. enfj would use Ni pattern recognition and the ability to perceive many layers of meaning, but it would be externalized and aided by having a viable Se function to compliment. it sounds very flexible and adaptable. but with Ti as aspiring there is less conceptual storings of pattern, metaphor, etc to rely upon to internally organize Ni and refine it, and instead more of a constant stream of information coming in from the environment that provides new opportunity and external practice with more situations. ie less focused on inner/theoretical meaning and more on handling situations and recognizing their intricacies in a penetrating Big Picture kind of way.

  8. #28
    Senior Member Array Winds of Thor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    very specifically- i think infj has the most difficulty communicating of any type with infp close behind.

    infp can't articulate its feelings and values, they are decidedly private and deliberately fuzzy. they exist internally and their articulation only happens in the rarest of occasions (art, saintly gestures, etc). plus they feel themselves more clearly and use that as an extremely powerful internal compass. they live out their ideals and suffer their contradictions. they embody or become or perform them, acting them out, and discover the boundaries of their values thru experience and experimentation.

    infj is relying on Ni to formulate its thought, speech, and feeling. Ni is the worst form giver possible, bc it is only a glimpse of something, a revelation, an illumination that can be held together only for a second. you're trying to construct logically flowing (yet unbastardized) meaningful speech out of Fe and Ti when the only thing you have to go on is an invisible holograph that you sort of feel but can't really reconstruct or remember.

    not to mention that infj needs more desperately than infp to explicitly articulate and express its understandings. it is its whole mode of operation, its whole reason for existing, raison d'etre. to symbolize it, to create a meaningful artifact out of it, to congeal it into something powerful that will explode and impact everything around it.

    personally, all my life it's like i've been staring at this picture far off in the distance or this shape in the clouds that i can't fully see, and it's all i ever want to talk about. i want to grasp it finally and completely with total conviction and understanding. but i don't even know what it is, can't see it, don't even remember half the time where to look...

    I have seen these cloudy, fuzzy "impressions of thoughts", and what I found is..

    What happens if you ask yourself, (inside your head), "What is that?"..I told my brain to think about this and put those fuzzy ideas into words, and to "get back with me."

    I know it sounds extreme, but I did this experiment. I found it provided words came back to me and I had a more powerful way to describe my 'holograph'..Sometimes it came in pieces or segments of the whole. Then I repeated process on those levels and words returned back, once again (after awhile of course) from what layers were dropped to me at each time or interval.

    I sure would be interested to know if I am alone on this or if you find anything similar, more, or different. You are the first person outside of me that I have heard experienced this..this is good..

    I'm sure there aren't any right or wrong things on this one and I hope to learn more about myself and others.

    "..And the eight and final rule: If this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight."
    'Men are meant to be with women. The rest is perversion and mental illness.'

  9. #29
    Senior Member Array Tiltyred's Avatar
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    That's why it's better to write.

  10. #30
    nevermore Array lane777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireyPheonix View Post
    I don't just listen like most people, I'm watching facial expressions and body language....I thought every one did that, but according him it's on a much more conscious level for me (I never noticed)
    Ay, I'm always very tuned in to body language. It says more than words.
    To die would be an awfully big adventure - Peter Pan

    INFJ ~ 4w5 sp/sx ~ RLOAI ~ Inclusion e/w=1/0 (Melancholy Compulsive) Control: e/w=0/6 (Supine) Affection: e/w=4/0 (Phlegmatic Melancholy)

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