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  1. #61
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Metaphors... gotta... deal with them.

    Urgency: the need to complete something, anything.
    Distress: there's times when I've been exhausted and overloaded, having to fight for personal identity.
    Peace: this is a rare enough one that I recognise the few times someone has passed it to me.
    Happiness: meh, don't know that one.
    Pleasure: can see this one in moments of synchronicity--it's not that uncommon--where someone's worked something out or done something and knows I've seen it and what was meant to be shared was the knowing. Or did the thing and know the other knows it.
    Fear: general anxiety is far more common than in-the-moment fear
    Excitement: rare, it fizzles out.
    Love: sure, why not. But it's so often subordinate to a thousand other concerns. Because Ni-Te knows.

    Others? I dunno. I shall schedule some time to investigate.

  2. #62
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    huh...didn't realize INTJs didn't like metaphors. Most have no prob understanding them IME

    Question: have you ever experienced the blissfull peace and quiet you get when turning of your Te and Ni for a moment and just bask in Fi? Just sit back, not judge anything and let things happen, let yourself be entertained and relaxed by another person or some pleasant event, without picking them apart? It's very beneficial to an INTJ IME.
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  3. #63
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post

    INTJs that have a weaker Fi-'flame' also feel colder, though I've never known there not at least to be a spark.

    People with out a spark don't exist. (not counting people in coma)

    What I find interesting in this thread is that everybody are focused on scenario that Fi is a good/noble Fi. But by definition that not Fi, actually it is only a half of it.

    For example "Lets make a hell on Earth!" is quite Fi thing to say.





    I think that generally term feelings is too much connected with category "touchy feely" on this forum.

  4. #64
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    huh...didn't realize INTJs didn't like metaphors. Most have no prob understanding them IME
    I turned a corner in this discussion without telling anyone: moved from labels (goo, spark, Fi) to content.

    Question: have you ever experienced the blissfull peace and quiet you get when turning of your Te and Ni for a moment and just bask in Fi? Just sit back, not judge anything and let things happen, let yourself be entertained and relaxed by another person or some pleasant event, without picking them apart?
    Yes.


    And now I can't decide which of two caveats to add:

    (a) Ni/Te and indeed Fi itself are together often so strict on those moments that even when they could happen if I just shut down some monitors... but those monitors won't shut down. Because Ni/Te knows.

    or

    (b) Ni/Te and Fi together do a significant part of the work that makes those moments genuine. Because Ni/Te knows.


    It's not that the events are picked apart, I think. It's that conditions aren't met. Sometimes I'll be right to feel conditions aren't met (because naive isn't the same as stupid or blind, so sometimes Ni/Te does know). Sometimes I'll be wrong (because naive is sometimes just the same as never having tried before.)

    So, go with the flow or go with what you know...

    Tough questions.

    :sad:

    Wanna make out?

  5. #65
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    I turned a corner in this discussion without telling anyone: moved from labels (goo, spark, Fi) to content.



    Yes.


    And now I can't decide which of two caveats to add:

    (a) Ni/Te and indeed Fi itself are together often so strict on those moments that even when they could happen if I just shut down some monitors... but those monitors won't shut down. Because Ni/Te knows.

    or

    (b) Ni/Te and Fi together do a significant part of the work that makes those moments genuine. Because Ni/Te knows.


    It's not that the events are picked apart, I think. It's that conditions aren't met. Sometimes I'll be right to feel conditions aren't met (because naive isn't the same as stupid or blind, so sometimes Ni/Te does know). Sometimes I'll be wrong (because naive is sometimes just the same as never having tried before.)

    So, go with the flow or go with what you know...

    Tough questions.

    :sad:

    Wanna make out?
    So now you've moved to content, that means...metaphors are no longer welcome?

    And no, you don't invoke the urge to make out yet, as you're stilll overthinking stuff
    But you're well on your way..do continue


    Do feel free to elaborate on those conditions you were referring to.

    The reason I asked the original question is because my SO turns to me for that. As an INTJ he has too much on his brain all the time. I'm the only one in his life that doesn't constantly demand him to use his 'talents' as such and just lets him relax and enjoy the moment. Meanwhile I provide the entertainment
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  6. #66
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    INTJ: gooey on the inside
    I believe the answer can be found in this thread. Some people see past our prickles to to the goo. It's there, the same way gooey people have some prickles, or maybe it's just a sliver.

  7. #67
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    So now you've moved to content, that means...metaphors are no longer welcome?

    And no, you don't invoke the urge to make out yet, as you're stilll overthinking stuff
    But you're well on your way..do continue


    Do feel free to elaborate on those conditions you were referring to.
    This one I have been thinking about recently: the conditions.

    I know the other person's job. I've seen it in dreams. Years ago when I was a wee stripling, I used to have "love dreams." (For any clean-living, God-fearin' folk reading and currently wondering if they should snicker, if I were wishing to use a euphemism, I wouldn't say "love", no, I'd mention something about a tunnel and a struggle and a rocket lift-off, and I'd complain about waking up all turned around in the bed sheet. So, no, by "love" I mean , not .)

    So in these love dreams nothing happens. It's just me and a woman. Nothing happens. There would however be a strong sense of being understood and accepted. But also something more, an extra thing that I've never been able to articulate properly. Something about recognition, being recognised. Something about this understanding and acceptance being empowering. Something akin to two people being one while remaining two while being one.

    So there's that condition.

    In real life the condition is not that such a connection exist, but that it be possible. There are a lot of ways in which such a connection is rendered improbable. And this, more than the end of the dream, is the sticky part of the theory: my role in that improbability: supporting it, rejecting it before it begins, assessing it, creating it, allowing it.

    To take the romance entirely out of this over-thinking, that dream is, at a minimum, a desire to have someone use Ne on me.

    The rest of it, I don't know. The rest of it is, play it by ear and be open. Something too about me being aware of recognition.

    There's a school of thought that says be open, let it come to be, have hope and faith. That there's a trade: that you can't expect understanding without being understanding, that you won't see kindness without being kind, that who will aim much to recognise you without you working to recognise them, and so on.

    Them's, sort of, are the conditions: recognition of recognition. Awareness of awareness.

    They're a bit strict.

    I have a sense though that everyone I've ever met uses them, pretty much exactly that way. Anyone of any type, trades recognition for recognition. It seems, I suppose, this way to me.

  8. #68
    Senior Mugwump Apollanaut's Avatar
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    Don't you just love the way Ni bounces off on different tangents, as demonstrated in this thread?
    INFJ 9w1 sx/sp/so

    "A wizard is never late. Nor is he early. He arrives precisely when he means to." - Gandalf The Grey

    And if I only could,
    I'd make a deal with God,
    And I'd get him to swap our places,
    Be running up that road,
    Be running up that hill,
    With no problems.

    - Kate Bush

  9. #69
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    This one I have been thinking about recently: the conditions.

    I know the other person's job. I've seen it in dreams. Years ago when I was a wee stripling, I used to have "love dreams." (For any clean-living, God-fearin' folk reading and currently wondering if they should snicker, if I were wishing to use a euphemism, I wouldn't say "love", no, I'd mention something about a tunnel and a struggle and a rocket lift-off, and I'd complain about waking up all turned around in the bed sheet. So, no, by "love" I mean , not .)

    So in these love dreams nothing happens. It's just me and a woman. Nothing happens. There would however be a strong sense of being understood and accepted. But also something more, an extra thing that I've never been able to articulate properly. Something about recognition, being recognised. Something about this understanding and acceptance being empowering. Something akin to two people being one while remaining two while being one.

    So there's that condition.

    In real life the condition is not that such a connection exist, but that it be possible. There are a lot of ways in which such a connection is rendered improbable. And this, more than the end of the dream, is the sticky part of the theory: my role in that improbability: supporting it, rejecting it before it begins, assessing it, creating it, allowing it.

    To take the romance entirely out of this over-thinking, that dream is, at a minimum, a desire to have someone use Ne on me.

    The rest of it, I don't know. The rest of it is, play it by ear and be open. Something too about me being aware of recognition.

    There's a school of thought that says be open, let it come to be, have hope and faith. That there's a trade: that you can't expect understanding without being understanding, that you won't see kindness without being kind, that who will aim much to recognise you without you working to recognise them, and so on.

    Them's, sort of, are the conditions: recognition of recognition. Awareness of awareness.

    They're a bit strict.

    I have a sense though that everyone I've ever met uses them, pretty much exactly that way. Anyone of any type, trades recognition for recognition. It seems, I suppose, this way to me.

    So you pretty much dream of someone who does walk through your wall of Te to the center of your Fi and touches your soul. Someone who will understand without a word, will recognize your potential and is aware of every dark secret you have, accepts who you truly are.

    And you're looking for someone to initiate this, to show you this potential, so you can reciprocate.

    And from what I understand, these are the conditions you hold up in order to be able to turn off that brain and be entertained by the other person so you can truly relax and bask?

    Find yourself an ENFP or ENTP
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  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    The reason I asked the original question is because my SO turns to me for that. As an INTJ he has too much on his brain all the time. I'm the only one in his life that doesn't constantly demand him to use his 'talents' as such and just lets him relax and enjoy the moment. Meanwhile I provide the entertainment
    You should email this to my gf.


    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    For example "Lets make a hell on Earth!" is quite Fi thing to say.



    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    And you're looking for someone to initiate this, to show you this potential, so you can reciprocate.
    Madness, woman! Mad.

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