[ENFP] Are ENFPs a logical type poll

[Tiny Army]

It usually takes me a little longer to grasp an advanced logical construct but once I know it, I have a fairly simple time explaining it to others. People generally assume I'm really irrational and write off what I say because I have a very childlike enthusiasm (I work with kids, dammit, this is just a thing that has developed) and because I am a stoner.

ENFPs have a childlike energy and youthful approach to their search for knowledge. NTs and especially S types often misconstrue this as immaturity or childishness. I understand how the constant barrage of questions (a lot of which seem irrelevant) while we are being taught something can make an NT think we are unserious about learning but this is our way of becoming emotionally invested in what we learn.

I'm sorry if I got up in arms in this thread and would like to apologise if I insulted anyone by accident. I've been written off a lot in my life because of my optimistic attitude and it just felt like the NTs were calling me stupid again.

 

[Tiny Army]

It usually takes me a little longer to grasp an advanced logical construct but once I know it, I have a fairly simple time explaining it to others. People generally assume I'm really irrational and write off what I say because I have a very childlike enthusiasm (I work with kids, dammit, this is just a thing that has developed) and because I am a stoner.

ENFPs have a childlike energy and youthful approach to their search for knowledge. NTs and especially S types often misconstrue this as immaturity or childishness. I understand how the constant barrage of questions (a lot of which seem irrelevant) while we are being taught something can make an NT think we are unserious about learning but this is our way of becoming emotionally invested in what we learn.

I'm sorry if I got up in arms in this thread and would like to apologise if I insulted anyone by accident. I've been written off a lot in my life because of my optimistic attitude and it just felt like the NTs were calling me stupid again.

 

[Lady_X]

look how apologetic us enfp's are it's so funny!

i understand what you're saying...those questions do help us become excited about them. we need to be excited about it in order to hear the details...or at least i do...unless my interest is piqued i cannot even hear what you're saying...most enfp's probably are not that way but i have pretty close to zero ability to pay attention if i don't care.

 

[Amargith]

The whole time I was in grad school I was by far the shittiest student in my program-I was in with a bunch of ENTP/INTP/INTJ physicists. Amoung the biochemists I was actually likely at the 80-90% range. A lot of them were just dumber than me.

The INTPs have got the rest of us beat on pure, abstract, detailed logic. They think slowly-to the point where some of them almost seem stoned or autistic-but in an exceptionally thourough manner. The final answer will be logical to a flaw. They miss the fuzzy logic introduced by people though.

the entps still beat the hell out of enfps at logic given that bright shiny Ti that hides within (quit Ne-ing me you perverts). These guys are much better at the big picture than the intps and do a better job with fuzzy poeple stuff as well. However while much quicker on thier feet than the intps, they sometimes will trip over thier Ne, and introduce flaws that I dont think you see with the pure Ti the INTP has.

ENFPs are interesting. We take big ass, fucking leaps of logic constantly. We are all over the place. But consistantly what I get feedback from others-my grad school PI, my bosses, my collegues-is the ability to take an enormously complex problem, fly way above it, look down upon it and find the flaw. I dont even have to understand the whole thing.

it's like my brain cant even always process the whole situation individually so it has to see evrything.

And in seeing everything, the "glitches" stand out. The inconsistances, the turns where things should be straight. Then I ask a few questions and the suddenly the delicate, belly underside of the problem is revealed. Dont ask me to solve the fucking problem, but i can point you to where the problem is.

+1

Don't ask me to explain the logic behind it, not even sure I understand it, but somehow I will ask you questions which will lead you to see where you have to fix things. Force me to build up logic though and it will be like cheese...holes everywhere. Oddly enough, the conclusion usually is correct though. No clue why.

 

[Laurie]

Plus I was getting a little sick of having to rejustify things in threads because there is an ENFP next to my posts. Never had it discussing science or anything on any other board or in any other forum. The normal deal is you make a point and people consider it. Especially if it is a good one. I might change it to ENTP for a while to see if responses change.

Agreed. In another forum I was considered the "voice of reason" People expected something intelligent to come from me, they didn't just expect wubbies.

I'm sure there are people who type themselves differently to play the "I'm smart" game on here.

 

[Gamine]

I almost gave my *probably* ISTJ finance partner a nervous breakdown last term. We hadn't started on a complicated assignment yet, but all of the other kids in the class had spent at least 3-4 hours trying to make the hedging simulation work to solve for blah blah blah. We sat down at the computer, and in the first 5 minutes of experimenting, I had completed the problem. He looked at me like I was the devil incarnate, since I had been blathering about the cotton candy machine being broken in the courtyard and worrying about how the course union was going to fundraise for their charity because the radio station had not arrived on location yet to bring people to the campus for the afternoon event.

I suggested we check with the prof, and he said that he would be surprised if I had done it correctly since I wasn't "paying attention". (I think he wanted me to scratch my head more, or grunt maybe?) and the prof gave us an A+.

My take is, thinking isn't hard. It's the application of thought to create change and create real benefit that is the challenge.

 

[simulatedworld]

Sorry, all except the first part was general. I just attached to your post, because I was initially answering it before I went off on a tangent. I sort of misinterpreted also. I thought you were making a more directed rather than general statement, saying we made the claim we were good at the stuff because we had our own rationale, hence we believed we were good at it because of this and didn't take the rationale of other types into account when doing that, so won't making a true global comparison.

Sorry again if it seemed more directed at you. Your post didn't really say much that could be worth all that. It was a general whinge at the whole F=thinkingly retarded thing. And it wasn't really that personal I just said their logic was crap, and pointed out what they did most of the time in these threads. Which is basically that: stroke their ego by saying rational=more intelligent, because some type description said they were smart. Also ENTPs tend not to do it. They make quality jokes, and are laid back. I've got no prob with you at all and actually quite like your posts. It was an insightful statement.

NT logic isn't any more "crap" than NF logic. In some situations it works better; in others it doesn't. I wouldn't bring an NT with me to go pester a club owner for a gig; that's done much better by someone who's more empathetic toward other viewpoints, more personable and friendly. (I have an ESFP bassist in a different band who's also very good at this sort of thing.) At the same time, I wouldn't choose anyone other than an NT to study poker theory with--their attention to rational consistency is of the utmost importance here.

I don't think that most NTs think ultra impersonal rationality is the absolute best approach in every possible situation. Sometimes rationality involves paying attention to other functions, and any NT worth his salt would know this. Always acting in the way you describe as "rational" is actually pretty irrational, given how most people don't really respond well to it. In fact, most of the NT-ego-stroking-via-rationality I see is done in online forums, where people are participating willfully and intentionally in competitive rational debate. NTs think (and I'd be inclined to agree) that cold, hard rational analysis is the best avenue for this particular situation, arguing online about abstract hypotheticals--that doesn't mean we all think there's never any place for Feeling or Sensing.

And my point in the first post was more a global statement that few people of any type consider themselves irrational, and so it would be rather pointless to ask anyone, "Are you irrational?" This wasn't any kind of intentional dig at NFs by any means.

 

[Moiety]

Agreed. In another forum I was considered the "voice of reason" People expected something intelligent to come from me, they didn't just expect wubbies.

I'm sure there are people who type themselves differently to play the "I'm smart" game on here.

I've been called a "robot" in others forums for being logic and impartial.

 

[FantailedWall]

I study philosophy. The foundation of which being?
The love of logical thinking.
Obviously there's more to it than this - and yet.

If you asked anybody in my philosophy tutes what they'd type me as (assuming any of them had any knowledge of MBTI) I'm betting you'd get a bunch of 'ENTP' answers.

As I say time and time again - I believe ENTP and ENFP to appear quite similar - at least on the surface. Same childhood type.
Therefore, an ENFP who has been raised to understand the value of logic can appear to be quite the 'voice of reason'.

Remember, we display extroverted intuition and thinking - the 'feeling' preference may become only blatantly apparent when you dig to the heart of things.

 

[alcea rosea]

It depends.

I'm brilliant in problem solving where I have few specialist as a source (probably few NT's, few SJ's and a SP) and I withdraw information and ideas from them, and bounce the ideas to everybody, came up with new solutions, bouce the ideas to everybody and little by little we come up with the best solutions.

So, I'm really good in cooperation based problem solving.
I totally suck in the probelm solving I have to do by myself.

I think my logical abilities are ok. I mean, I'm not a rocket scientist, but not an idiot either.

I understand patterns very easily and organized hierarchies, aslo social patterns. I also figure out the core meaning of stuff very easily. But not with highly theorethical stuff. I am not very good in going things through over and over again in my brain. I need people when figuring out stuff. I need people to give me new ideas.

So, I'm not voting.

 

[Kalach]

Remember, we display extroverted intuition and thinking - the 'feeling' preference may become only blatantly apparent when you dig to the heart of things.

Well, Jeez, there you go. The extraverted functions are N and T.

*You* pay more attention to the feeling aspect, but what you display and how you deal with *them out there* is N and T.

Finally something that makes sense.

 

[BlueScreen]

Well, Jeez, there you go. The extraverted functions are N and T.

*You* pay more attention to the feeling aspect, but what you display and how you deal with *them out there* is N and T.

Finally something that makes sense.

 

[FantailedWall]

Well, Jeez, there you go. The extraverted functions are N and T.

*You* pay more attention to the feeling aspect, but what you display and how you deal with *them out there* is N and T.

Finally something that makes sense.

-Takes a bow-
Thank you, thank yooouu - I'll be here 'till Thursday (and enjoy the veal)

Now if you could just explain to my INTJ father in INTJ secret code or somethin' that I'm not argumentative, I just see more than his side of the argument....

 

[mlittrell]

the problem with the question is this, if an ENFP grows up in a household that is a logical household (a parent that is a T, for me, my dad is an INTJ) then they tend to handle logic quite well, they might not use it in decision making as much as they do feeling but if you throw them a logic question then they might actually do quite well in solving it. on the other hand, if they grow up in a not quite logical household, mostly surrounded with Fs, then logic may not come quite as easily. this same idea can be applied to thinkers in terms of handling emotion. and also with S/N in terms of handling N/S (though not as much).

 

[Lady_X]

^^ i agree with you. must be that.

 

[JocktheMotie]

the problem with the question is this, if an ENFP grows up in a household that is a logical household (a parent that is a T, for me, my dad is an INTJ) then they tend to handle logic quite well, they might not use it in decision making as much as they do feeling but if you throw them a logic question then they might actually do quite well in solving it. on the other hand, if they grow up in a not quite logical household, mostly surrounded with Fs, then logic may not come quite as easily. this same idea can be applied to thinkers in terms of handling emotion. and also with S/N in terms of handling N/S (though not as much).

I can actually somewhat agree with this. My mother is an extremely unbalanced ESFP. Self-esteem issues, body issues, inferiority complex, the works. Any subtle slight or, say if my girlfriend had ever made me a lunch for school or work when I was living at home, somehow meant to her that I had told my gf she was a terrible mother and didn't love her. She was and is an emotional headcase, and having been brought up in that environment I am MUCH more careful when treading on others' feelings than your average NT. Ironically, it has helped me a lot in my relationships, because I tend to ask myself what the emotional response of a person will be if I do said action, and is it worth it to inflict some kind of pain and deal with the stress of making someone upset.

While I'll never understand why people feel the way they do if it doesn't make any sense, I'm at least a bit more aware of it.

 

[Amargith]

the problem with the question is this, if an ENFP grows up in a household that is a logical household (a parent that is a T, for me, my dad is an INTJ) then they tend to handle logic quite well, they might not use it in decision making as much as they do feeling but if you throw them a logic question then they might actually do quite well in solving it. on the other hand, if they grow up in a not quite logical household, mostly surrounded with Fs, then logic may not come quite as easily. this same idea can be applied to thinkers in terms of handling emotion. and also with S/N in terms of handling N/S (though not as much).

Sorry, gotto disagree. In my case, having an extreme T parent made me lose all confidence in my logic abilities, as my attempts at it were never good enough. I just pretty much gave up on it, rebelled against everything that was supposedly logical and went on my gut/feelings, much to my parents dismay. I still don't trust myself when forced to be logical, and will have my work doublechecked to be sure. I'm sure that if you have nurturing NF-parents, you can still get enough 'T' taught in school, as the outside world, and therefore schools, focus on this anyways.

 

[FantailedWall]

the problem with the question is this, if an ENFP grows up in a household that is a logical household (a parent that is a T, for me, my dad is an INTJ) then they tend to handle logic quite well, they might not use it in decision making as much as they do feeling but if you throw them a logic question then they might actually do quite well in solving it. on the other hand, if they grow up in a not quite logical household, mostly surrounded with Fs, then logic may not come quite as easily. this same idea can be applied to thinkers in terms of handling emotion. and also with S/N in terms of handling N/S (though not as much).

MINE TOO
Growing up with him has made me able to switch on my 'Te' with relative ease.
Oh my gosh - you're the illegitimate brother I always knew I had, aren't you??!
ITS BEEN TOO LONG





...Ahem.
Anyhow.
I believe the theory to be sound - and one I've made similar observations in favour of. 'Nurture' having a good deal to say in the specifics of how you express what 'Nature' you are naturally imbued with.

 

[Lady_X]

that's really sweet jock.

and that's interesting amargith....it seemed to apply to me because i have no t's in my family....just wasn't brought up around it so didn't feel as confident with expressing myself in that way.

 

[mlittrell]

Sorry, gotto disagree. In my case, having an extreme T parent made me lose all confidence in my logic abilities, as my attempts at it were never good enough. I just pretty much gave up on it, rebelled against everything that was supposedly logical and went on my gut/feelings, much to my parents dismay. I still don't trust myself when forced to be logical, and will have my work doublechecked to be sure. I'm sure that if you have nurturing NF-parents, you can still get enough 'T' taught in school, as the outside world, and therefore schools, focus on this anyways.

ya then let me add this: a T parent with an F parent to balance it out. i could see how too much T would be disheartening for an ENFP.

my mom is an INFJ so naturally i dont mind the extreme logic that emanates from my dad

Anyhow.
I believe the theory to be sound - and one I've made similar observations in favour of. 'Nurture' having a good deal to say in the specifics of how you express what 'Nature' you are naturally imbued with.

well state, that is what i was originally trying to say