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View Poll Results: Are you a logical/rational NF?

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  • ENFP: Awesome at logic and problem solving

    26 40.63%
  • ENFP: Okay at logic and problem solving

    9 14.06%
  • ENFP: I suck at logic and problem solving

    3 4.69%
  • INFP: Awesome at logic and problem solving

    3 4.69%
  • INFP: Okay at logic and problem solving

    5 7.81%
  • INFP: I suck at logic and problem solving

    2 3.13%
  • ENFJ: Awesome at logic and problem solving

    1 1.56%
  • ENFJ: Okay at logic and problem solving

    1 1.56%
  • ENFJ: I suck at logic and problem solving

    2 3.13%
  • INFJ: Awesome at logic and problem solving

    5 7.81%
  • INFJ: Okay at logic and problem solving

    7 10.94%
  • INFJ: I suck at logic and problem solving

    0 0%
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Results 71 to 80 of 111

  1. #71
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    OP kind of misses the point here, I'm afraid. Of course any type will tell you they're rational if you ask them; everyone's definition of "logical" is different.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  2. #72
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    What we really need is a poll to prop up the INTJ sense that we're just about the best judges of moral iniquity and heaven-sent goodness there are. We can let the other NTs participate too, but that'll be just for show.

  3. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    OP kind of misses the point here, I'm afraid. Of course any type will tell you they're rational if you ask them; everyone's definition of "logical" is different.
    Yes, but if you take into account that we are a type who is normally honest, and has a decently grounded perspective, then the fact the poll ratio is so high should have something to say to you. There are 3 other types on the list, they don't have as many votes, but none is the same sort of landslide.

    The point I was making is it is a normal characteristic for an ENFP to be very capable in logical and problem solving areas. The smartest student in an Engineering or Science course is as likely to be an ENFP as ENTP, INTP or INTJ. But there seems to be this endless denial because there is an F in our type. Many NTs instantly see F and have that reaction before they even consider what is in front of them. This is in no way being detached and logical. It is jumping to conclusions and assuming you are right with zero data to support it except your ego.

    As I said before, if you look for real life ENFPs they look like Ne dominants. You seem to have an idea what an ENTP is, so start from there. I know this idea makes you jump up and down and say, "No NFs in our territory", and whatever other unfounded illogical crap NTs feel like coming up with, but it is not a misleading comparison. Your ENFP in your course could easily be better than the ENTPs, INTPs and INTJs. It just depends on the people from each type. And no it is not a rare one in a million thing. I explain this as much for NTs understanding as for our benefit. I think most of us like slipping under the radar. Do your normal thing. Research and learn, because the majority NT response on this seems to be wrong. Do you guys actually think the ENFP in these areas will be battling? Because if you do you better bring some evidence to the table which can contradict the reality of the situation. First rule to learn is, if something is shown to be wrong with confidence, the formula folds, not the reality.
    Freude, schöner Götterfunken Tochter aus Elysium, Wir betreten feuertrunken, Himmlische, dein Heiligtum! Deine Zauber binden wieder Was die Mode streng geteilt; Alle Menschen werden Brüder, Wo dein sanfter Flügel weilt.

  4. #74
    Senior Member Tiny Army's Avatar
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    I just think ENFPs (because of their dominant Ne and tertiary Te) are very good at using intuitive logic which is different than the logic that rational types use. Dominant Te or Ti results in an ability to create complex systems. Ne results in an ability to interpret complex systems.




    (Fun fact: Statistically, INFPs on average have the highest IQs out of all MBTI types. Rock on, INFPs!)

  5. #75
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noigmn View Post
    Yes, but if you take into account that we are a type who is normally honest, and has a decently grounded perspective, then the fact the poll ratio is so high should have something to say to you. There are 3 other types on the list, they don't have as many votes, but none is the same sort of landslide.

    The point I was making is it is a normal characteristic for an ENFP to be very capable in logical and problem solving areas. The smartest student in an Engineering or Science course is as likely to be an ENFP as ENTP, INTP or INTJ. But there seems to be this endless denial because there is an F in our type. Many NTs instantly see F and have that reaction before they even consider what is in front of them. This is in no way being detached and logical. It is jumping to conclusions and assuming you are right with zero data to support it except your ego.

    As I said before, if you look for real life ENFPs they look like Ne dominants. You seem to have an idea what an ENTP is, so start from there. I know this idea makes you jump up and down and say, "No NFs in our territory", and whatever other unfounded illogical crap NTs feel like coming up with, but it is not a misleading comparison. Your ENFP in your course could easily be better than the ENTPs, INTPs and INTJs. It just depends on the people from each type. And no it is not a rare one in a million thing. I explain this as much for NTs understanding as for our benefit. I think most of us like slipping under the radar. Do your normal thing. Research and learn, because the majority NT response on this seems to be wrong. Do you guys actually think the ENFP in these areas will be battling? Because if you do you better bring some evidence to the table which can contradict the reality of the situation. First rule to learn is, if something is shown to be wrong with confidence, the formula folds, not the reality.

    Ummmm actually I like many NFs better than NTs, and I don't have any bias against Fs whatsoever. The types I have the most friction with are typically SJs; I prefer having NFs in almost all creative teamwork situations. I play in a band with three NFs and only one other NT, and I tend to prefer having a lot of Ns of either subgroup there for idea generation.

    I work with more NFs than NTs and I find them to be much more pleasant people who often have a better grasp of the attitudes necessary to actually succeed in working people into situations instead of just facts and ideas (introverted NTs are especially bad about neglecting this.) INFJ is absolutely one of my favorite types, and I have many friends in all the NF types (except ENFJ, for some reason, but still a couple there) whose opinions I consider worthwhile and (generally) pretty rational. Much more rational than those of many SJs, for sure.

    Thanks for making a huge load of outrageous and totally unfounded assumptions about me and what I think based solely on my MBTI type, though. That shows real NF rationality, wouldn't you say?
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  6. #76

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    Sorry, all except the first part was general. I just attached to your post, because I was initially answering it before I went off on a tangent. I sort of misinterpreted also. I thought you were making a more directed rather than general statement, saying we made the claim we were good at the stuff because we had our own rationale, hence we believed we were good at it because of this and didn't take the rationale of other types into account when doing that, so won't making a true global comparison.

    Sorry again if it seemed more directed at you. Your post didn't really say much that could be worth all that. It was a general whinge at the whole F=thinkingly retarded thing. And it wasn't really that personal I just said their logic was crap, and pointed out what they did most of the time in these threads. Which is basically that: stroke their ego by saying rational=more intelligent, because some type description said they were smart. Also ENTPs tend not to do it. They make quality jokes, and are laid back. I've got no prob with you at all and actually quite like your posts. It was an insightful statement.
    Freude, schöner Götterfunken Tochter aus Elysium, Wir betreten feuertrunken, Himmlische, dein Heiligtum! Deine Zauber binden wieder Was die Mode streng geteilt; Alle Menschen werden Brüder, Wo dein sanfter Flügel weilt.

  7. #77
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    Wrapping yourselves up in being good at logic isn't worth it, regardless of your type, IMO.

  8. #78

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kanamori View Post
    Wrapping yourselves up in being good at logic isn't worth it, regardless of your type, IMO.
    Agree. I more wanted to prove a point to unwrap them, than move anywhere myself. I know what I can do anyway, four MBTI letters don't change that. Plus I was getting a little sick of having to rejustify things in threads because there is an ENFP next to my posts. Never had it discussing science or anything on any other board or in any other forum. The normal deal is you make a point and people consider it. Especially if it is a good one. I might change it to ENTP for a while to see if responses change.

    Like you can know otherwise on a deeper level, but if you cop the stuff long enough you start to believe it. I'd never been scared that I had any limitation rationally before coming on here. And I'd never had any lack of confidence about it. But I tend to read into things a lot and take stuff on board. If enough people believe you are, then you think maybe I am, you give their opinion credit.

    In every other way the board has been great for development. But that side of it has done more damage than constructive stuff. I never feel compelled to write out a million steps when problem solving, but my rational side is still okay enough to beat reversi on the impossible level more than 50% of the time, and still okay enough to have completed two of the most difficult degrees at university without much trouble. But somehow this stuff still gets to me. Like people ask me for the answers, and I'm less sure I'm right. I trust it less. I don't trust that they will trust it. I'm an ENFP, one of those imperfect calculators...

    I don't mind if we end the discussion on this, cos I quite like all the NT types and I am tending to start more arguments than useful stuff. Apologies for all the bits where I stepped over the line.
    Freude, schöner Götterfunken Tochter aus Elysium, Wir betreten feuertrunken, Himmlische, dein Heiligtum! Deine Zauber binden wieder Was die Mode streng geteilt; Alle Menschen werden Brüder, Wo dein sanfter Flügel weilt.

  9. #79
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    The whole time I was in grad school I was by far the shittiest student in my program-I was in with a bunch of ENTP/INTP/INTJ physicists. Amoung the biochemists I was actually likely at the 80-90% range. A lot of them were just dumber than me.

    The INTPs have got the rest of us beat on pure, abstract, detailed logic. They think slowly-to the point where some of them almost seem stoned or autistic-but in an exceptionally thourough manner. The final answer will be logical to a flaw. They miss the fuzzy logic introduced by people though.

    the entps still beat the hell out of enfps at logic given that bright shiny Ti that hides within (quit Ne-ing me you perverts). These guys are much better at the big picture than the intps and do a better job with fuzzy poeple stuff as well. However while much quicker on thier feet than the intps, they sometimes will trip over thier Ne, and introduce flaws that I dont think you see with the pure Ti the INTP has.

    ENFPs are interesting. We take big ass, fucking leaps of logic constantly. We are all over the place. But consistantly what I get feedback from others-my grad school PI, my bosses, my collegues-is the ability to take an enormously complex problem, fly way above it, look down upon it and find the flaw. I dont even have to understand the whole thing.

    it's like my brain cant even always process the whole situation individually so it has to see evrything.

    And in seeing everything, the "glitches" stand out. The inconsistances, the turns where things should be straight. Then I ask a few questions and the suddenly the delicate, belly underside of the problem is revealed. Dont ask me to solve the fucking problem, but i can point you to where the problem is.

  10. #80
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    noigmn.. i just wanted to say, i really appreciate your thoughts on this and admire your ability to express them. i have a really hard time verbalizing why i know things or the process that lead to the conclusion but do feel pretty confident in my ability to problem solve...just don't ask me to explain it to you, you know?
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

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