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  1. #1
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    Unhappy Help! I need to learn how to use logic!!

    Don't let my bosses see this thread, but I am afraid that my logic and reasoning skills are very poor. I think thats is why I feel inferior to my collegues especially in the computer hi-tech world.
    I just realized that this is my specific problem when attempting to play an easy game of sudoku for the first time....
    I need some help here, as I believe that if I work on it, it could get better.
    Any suggestions are extremely appreciated!!!!
    I need to develop this or my career will be going no where
    HELP!!! I need to get smarter!!!
    Even crazy hypnosis type ideas are welcome, so please anything....

  2. #2
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Can we at least know about what kind of career we are talking about here?


    Asking questions like this is usually the first step.

  3. #3
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Fall in love with a logician.
    Get an assistant
    Give up pwning every department at work
    Take a course
    Read Sophie's World.

    Or snap your fingers and wrinkle your nose. It worked on Bewitched.

    -Or-

    Ethical thinking already includes a shitload of critical thinking, and as ENFJ you do this almost every waking minute of your life. Practice drawing abstract conclusions from the particular cases you see and involve yourelf in every day. Keep a journal. Draw broader and broader conclusions. Discuss your conclusions with someone.

    That's logic.

    If you want Computer Science, go to Community College.

  4. #4
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    Thanks antisociol one and kalach.
    How did I not see this coming from 2 intjs!!!!

    Ok the truth is if anything I deserve it for admitting to my weakness....
    And I can imagine that you are quite happy to know that you guys have no problem with it especially relatively to your enfj friend....
    This is what I go through all the time here at work...


    Ethical thinking already includes a shitload of critical thinking, and as ENFJ you do this almost every waking minute of your life. Practice drawing abstract conclusions from the particular cases you see and involve yourelf in every day. Keep a journal. Draw broader and broader conclusions. Discuss your conclusions with someone.
    I think a lot, that is not my problem, and I am actually very ethical , I am good at solving problems on the level of organizing priorities and finding real solutions, but when it comes to logic problems, I think which have to do maybe with spatial reasoning,? I don't know where to start.. I want to develop this and the truth is it doesn't really matter if I do stay in the hi-tech computer feild or not, I don't want to have this major weakness in my intellect as it makes me feel very bad about myself, and my level of intellect, which of course has a direct effect on my self esteem....

    I know I have strengths in other areas of intellect, but I want to be well rounded and at least be average in all the different areas...

    I am still debating about what career, but I would like to do project management and I would need to know computers to be able to know what the heck I'm managing
    (That I would do mainly for the managing aspect, and in the hi-tech feild for the money )

    the truth is my dream job or career would be a project director for humanitarian type issues, something that involves 'real time' as I enjoy meeting the challenge of doing the impossible. Such as disaster relief at the time of crisis: war, natural disaster, etc.
    and I anyways feel so drawn to helping as many people as possible at the time of a crisis, so to help entire regions, or a city of people etc., would be a dream ....

    Still waiting for answers.
    come on, help an enfj out

    Thanks again, Dee

  5. #5
    Was E.laur Laurie's Avatar
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    Well I would suggest buying logic problem books and doing them. It might sound funny to get logic suggestions from an ENFP but I had logic training (puzzles) as a kid at school and have an engineering degree. I guess it's not my weakness.

    Practice really helps a lot. Some books are better than others, some have very ambiguous puzzles that make me wonder how the person even got to the point of making a book.

    There are puzzle magazines you can buy at the store you can try. They are usually word puzzles but they do have some logic puzzles in them.

    There are logic books about "thinking logically" or "winning arguments" but I haven't read any of them. I will try to find some of the books I actually think are good and post them.

    I hope this helps a little.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Helios's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dee View Post
    Don't let my bosses see this thread, but I am afraid that my logic and reasoning skills are very poor. I think thats is why I feel inferior to my collegues especially in the computer hi-tech world.
    I just realized that this is my specific problem when attempting to play an easy game of sudoku for the first time....
    I need some help here, as I believe that if I work on it, it could get better.
    Any suggestions are extremely appreciated!!!!
    I need to develop this or my career will be going no where
    HELP!!! I need to get smarter!!!
    Even crazy hypnosis type ideas are welcome, so please anything....
    I recommend "With Good Reason: An Introduction to Informal Fallacies" by S. Morris Engel.

  7. #7
    Seriously Delirious Udog's Avatar
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    If you are taking college classes, look into Discrete Mathematics and boolean algebra. Both deal with logic using concrete and explicit rules.

    Remember that logic is a skill. Just because you were not born with it doesn't mean you can't learn about it and develop it. (As an INFP I'm painfully aware of not being a logical creature by default.) I suggest picking up some books on the topic, and then enlisting friends to help you when it comes to understanding, integrating, and applying it.

    If you are interesting in doing well with I.Q. test type questions, Elaur's advice is pretty good. The more of those types of problems you do, the better you will become at it.

  8. #8
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Dee, seriously, there's a difference between truth hunting and feeling hunting, and it shows up in reading: strict truth hunting draws the concepts out of the words, and strict feeling hunting draws the tone out of the writer. You're a tone reader par excellence, and a deep ethical thinker/manager. And logic, critical reasoning, is not much more than exactly what you do every day, but written out in a step-by-step form to an abstract, generalisable conclusion.

    In short, logic is included in what you do every day. If you truly want to see the logic (and torture yourself), then think about your day, take the human faces out of it, and write down what's left, the abstract ethical principles you use every day. Then discuss them. Prove them. Abstract away from the particular people and represent the principles behind it all. You'll be engaging in logical discourse.

    But why waste your time?

    Why not jump hard onto managing people instead of machines. Like my Pappy always used to say: "Don't know better than the expert, get to know the expert better."

    Why not, in fact, investigate jobs with humanitarian agencies?



    Oh God, I just realised, DON'T take the people's faces out of your discussion. Include them. In detail. Build up supporting evidence for your final conclusions. Then generalise. Use other examples... That's logical discussion.

    Practice will make perfect. The style of talking will carry over into other areas.

    Soon you will be an INTP.

  9. #9
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    Thanks everyone!! really!!
    I will be looking into everything that has been suggested, and have taken all of your advice to heart!
    I am feeling much better already thanks to all you're advice!

    Cheers, Dee

  10. #10
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    For example:

    Mary has been living with Bob for four years and is very comfortable, even though she worries she doesn't really love him. What's more, recently she has started working with George. She has discovered that she is very attracted to him. In fact, last week at a social function after work she found herself in deep discussion with George about everything and anything. They were still talking after everyone else had left. However, she is not completely sure what that means.

    Bob is going away on an assignment for his work and will be gone for two months. Before she met George, Mary was looking forward to Bob's assignment because it would give her a chance to be alone and sort out some issues for herself.

    Now Mary thinks she might like to have a date George while Bob is away.

    Should she tell Bob before he goes on assignment? Why? Why not?

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