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  1. #1
    Te > Fi > Ni Shaula's Avatar
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    Default Frustrated NT Seeking NF Advice

    I am very concerned for my close ENFP friend. For the past few years she's been becomming progressively more reckless and careless. For example, I was pissed last night because she had an affair with a married man who's only defense was, "Oh my wife knows about it." Then ended up sharing a bed with someone else who she's only seen twice in her life and about 30 years older. Also in that same night she popped some unknown pill that some random guy gave her. God, I wanted to smack her! I'm extrememly frustrated with her in that she chooses to put herself in harms way. Instead of saving up the money to see a doctor about her insomnia problems she used to wrap a cloth around her head until she passed out. I can understand when money is tight but that is just plain STUPID. I've tried suggesting many ways to help her problems but she rides off my advice before she even tries it. Sometimes if I suggest her something she will do the opposite just to spite me. (She calls it an impulse to do the opposite.)

    Last summer I got a frightening call from her mother telling me that she had gone missing. At the time I was living over a thousand miles away but I dropped everything I was doing and drove cross country to go find her. Turns out she had been staying with some guy in dumpy motel who claimed to be a millionaire and had theoretically bought her a brand new car, a motorcycle, and was planning to take her on a trip to Europe. I ain't making this shit up!

    I feel like I've had to put my life on hold for her.

    Now I've expressed my worries to her on numerous occasions. She usually replies with, "Well I don't care enough about myself [to seek help]." "How do you expect me to do it when I'm broke. It's easier to do it this way." "You don't understand how I work. It's fine for me to do it [a harmful way] because it doesn't bother me." "You don't understand my situation. You don't know what it's like..." "I know what I'm doing. I've done this so many times." When I argue about the stress she is causing me she says, "Don't be so selfish." "I'm a big girl. I can look out for myself." "I'm not your responsibility."

    I've known this person since elementry school and she is like a sister to me. She is actually a very smart girl but she does the stupidest things. I understand that she is an adult and needs to make her own decisions in life but I'll be damned if I find her laying dead in a gutter. There is a part of me that feels OBLIGATED to intervene.

    Keep in mind that although I'm seeking advice, I'm also venting.
    Is not to be held accuntable for peeling errors.

  2. #2
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    I'm interested in seeing what the NFs have to say... but my instinct...

    ... she's an ENFP and she's happy with what she's doing, and you're an INTJ who is trying to mother her, even if it's for her own good.

    You aren't her mother.
    You aren't in charge of her.

    The part that sucks about love is that you have to let people you love do stupid dumb-ass things with their lives (or at least it might look that way to you) because they're adults.

    You say she's a smart person who does dumb things.
    Then she's smart enough to take care of herself, and nothing you do is going to stop her.
    She's already told you the more you try to control her, the worse she'll rebel.
    Why are you trying to win a losing battle?

    Offer her something better, if you can.
    But otherwise her life is hers.

    You already know this.
    And NO, it's not your obligation to intervene except to be there for her when she askes for it.


    Meanwhile? Vent away.
    I'd be pissed at one of my friends doing something like this with her life too.
    No harm in being pissed as hell at her.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  3. #3
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    I got burned out just reading that. I have no advice except to say if she doesn't want help, there's probably very little you can do.

  4. #4
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Unfortunately, Jennifer has a point.

    Trying to control an ENFP is pointless. You can't, especially not if you're gonna use the 'tough love' tactic, the autority figure role, or blunt force. This will cause resentment, rebellion and a need to get avoid you. She sounds depressed to me, rudderless, something I'm all too familiar with. She needs a goal in her life, she probably has an immense self-esteem problem (hence the 'I don't think I'm worth it' comment), and she's addicted to things that accomodate her need for escapism, such as the attention of men and other stimulants.

    If you have the time and energy, and patience, try and listen to her, without suggesting solutions. Instead, ask questions. What do you wanna change, how do you think you would best accomplish that, what do you think would work for you? Let her tell you what she wants and needs, let her rave and rant about her fears and what's holding her back. INTJ's are brilliant in taking ideas and vague notions and transforming them into workable stuff in reality. Let her decide how she wants to get a hold of her life, and help her with the practical details, if you can. Also, I realize this is something you guys really don't do, but analyze her and tell her what her strenghts are, and really be carefull about the way you formulate the things that need work. Then press your repeat-button. I know, it's not your thing, but she needs to hear it. She needs to realize that she is good at things if she's to gain any idea of what she wants to do with her life.

    Oh and all this is useless, if she's not ready to change, just so you know...
    Also, she sounds like she could benefit from some professional help, as she is a bit out of control.

    Good luck to you
    Amargith
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    "Harm none, do as ye will”

  5. #5
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaula View Post


    I feel like I've had to put my life on hold for her.

    Keep in mind that although I'm seeking advice, I'm also venting.
    Unless your life is threatened by maintaining contact with her I refrain from giving relationship advice unless I'm certain that giving the energy away means that the asker is actually going to use it for constructive purposes.

    Experience has told me that people who want to vent usually want to vent and aren't inclined to make any changes which may harm the relationship.

    Because anything you do to alter the relationship from the way it has become arranged is going to make you feel like you have damaged it. And it sounds like she would be willing to lay the blame on you from what you've already said.

    Your choice to put your life on hold for her is yours to make and break as you choose. So either keep doing it or stop.

    There are various techniques you can use to accomplish this without being cruel, but using them will mean resistance from your friend and possibly ending the relationship.

    So, before you make any decisions about this ask yourself what length you are willing to go to to free yourself up from the psychological strangle-hold she seems to have on you.
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

  6. #6
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    She sounds bipolar.

    She should get meds. She's obviously acting out -- I wouldn't be surprised if she has been sexually abused/raped.

    Sadly, though, all you can do is tell her how you feel. You really can't do much else. As sad as it is, it doesn't sound like she's going to be responsive. You should probably cut her out of your life if she isn't willing to change because this is doing damage to YOU.

    Sad but true.

  7. #7
    heart on fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    You should probably cut her out of your life if she isn't willing to change because this is doing damage to YOU.

    Sad but true.
    +1

  8. #8
    Senior Member IrishStallion819's Avatar
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    Wow, This is quite the saga your going through and I know it must be tough.. She is obviously feeling pretty low about herself and is desperately in need of attention. When people ingage in behaviors, such as what you have said above, Its filling a void in their lifes.. Their is not much you can do, considering she is going to do what she is going to do. Buttttt....... You can offer her support and love. Make sure you let her know that you do love her and care for her and offer a shoulder to cry on. I would maybe ask her over sometime or ask her to meet you somewhere and just offer your help and support. IF she needs to talk, then you need to let her talk. If she needs a place to stay, then if you can, offer her a place to stay.. Basically, pull together any resources you have or what others you know may have; to help her because shes obviously in desperate need. She needs to understand that you are willing to help her, in any way possible and to have assurance that she can count on you. It wouldn't hurt to tell other people about this current situation and see where they could possibly help.. SOmetimes, you just need more than one head, to solve a problem.. I will be in constant prayer about this issue and hope that some event will make it clear to her, that she needs to change and seek help.. I know its quite hard but its amazing the changes people can make, when they know there others out there that actually do care..
    "People often Find out the truth, when its too late!!!"

    Introverted (I) 78.79% Intuitive (N) 61.54% Feeling (F) 65.85% Judging (J) 60.53%

  9. #9
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    You guys, she's talking about a life-time relationship here. Splittiing before trying to practice good boundaries with her friend may not be her best choice.

    We don't know all the ties or circumstances.

    I just encourage no black or white decisions until she has sorted through a lot of factors.

    This was addressed to Evan and heart.
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

  10. #10
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anja View Post
    You guys, she's talking about a life-time relationship here. Splittiing before trying to practice good boundaries with her friend may not be her best choice.

    We don't know all the ties or circumstances.

    I just encourage no black or white decisions until she has sorted through a lot of factors.

    This was addressed to Evan and heart.
    It sounds as if he's basically tried all the options.

    Tell her to read an article on bipolar disorder, tell her to see a doctor -- if that doesn't work, give up before she destroys you.

    You get to CHOOSE your friends. A wise person once told me that.

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