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  1. #11
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    i agree with what amargith said. i have never been in a similar situation myself but trying to imagine that i were...i feel like i would feel alone and helpless...i think i would need lots of pep talks and ego stroking...i imagine i would need to realize my value and remember my dreams...have a new focus...a clear picture of who i am and what i am capable of and what i need to do in order to get my life back together.

    i imagine an enfp who feels lost and alone would be quite reckless...what a scary thought and wow am i sorry you have to deal with it...but fighting her on it or making her feel stupid for her choices might push her away and make her rebel against anything you have to say...tread lightly...offer love and support and logical encouraging ideas....good luck to both of you and you're a sweet heart for caring so much and trying to help her.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  2. #12
    Senior Member IrishStallion819's Avatar
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    Drugs won't do anything for her, neither will the doc.. IF money is really an issue with her, than thats the worst advice you can give. Those meds are just poison for your mind. What she needs is peoples support and a place to go to escape the drama in her life.. A place where she can grow in a nurturing environment, so she can eventually get back on her feet and start acting like a responsible adult..
    "People often Find out the truth, when its too late!!!"

    Introverted (I) 78.79% Intuitive (N) 61.54% Feeling (F) 65.85% Judging (J) 60.53%

  3. #13
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    ^^ i can agree with that too...if anyone could offer her a place to stay away from everyone for a bit to get herself back together...that would be really helpful i think...a lot to ask of anyone though.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  4. #14
    Senior Member FantailedWall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IrishStallion819 View Post
    She is obviously feeling pretty low about herself and is desperately in need of attention.
    No.
    From interaction with other ENFPs and - well, being one - when we break down, it's not attention we crave. It's understanding, but we won't seek it out actively - contrary to our healthy state, we will try to block out our friends and family, both in fear of 'dragging them down with us' (so to speak) and in an attempt to severe ties to the reality which hurts.

    An ENFP with low self-esteem is likely to have the mindset that they are not worthy of being helped.

    Unfortunately, there is so little you can do. The two worse things being:
    - Telling her what to do (as has already been said)
    - Telling her how selfish she is being (she obviously hasn't realized, and forcing her to will make her try to 'push you away' more, as her currently twisted logic will tell her that's the right thing to do so 'she won't want to detriment on your life'.)

    It's only once she wants to help herself that anything can happen - and even then there will be little you can do. She won't want to include you, she'll be of the mindset (and probably rightly so) that 'only she can help herself'.

    There is a lot more I want to write, so I'll private message you.

    Other than that - Amargith's advice is very sound, and I'm impressed with how dedicated you are to your friend. Very noble of you.


    PS - This sounds like a case on an ENFP with clinical depression, NOT bipolar. But I of course cannot say that with certainty.

  5. #15
    Senior Member IrishStallion819's Avatar
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    If its a matter of life and death, That is a sacrifice that someone must make... Its a rarity in our day and age; with our culture the way it is.. But learning about her behaviors and who shes seems to be; Shes going to either end up dead or horribly broken. Which, I don't even want to think of the outcome from that.. In regards to above......To gain understanding from someone, is a form of attention..
    "People often Find out the truth, when its too late!!!"

    Introverted (I) 78.79% Intuitive (N) 61.54% Feeling (F) 65.85% Judging (J) 60.53%

  6. #16
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IrishStallion819 View Post
    Drugs won't do anything for her, neither will the doc.. IF money is really an issue with her, than thats the worst advice you can give. Those meds are just poison for your mind. What she needs is peoples support and a place to go to escape the drama in her life..
    Wow.

    Listen, no one can fix anyone else. She can't escape the drama in her life because she creates it. She obviously doesn't want it fixed -- since she's smart, she can figure out what to do herself -- she's just self-destructing. It's pointless to let her pull anyone else down with her.

    Ideally, the OP should offer support and advice while maintaining healthy boundaries. Pragmatically, though, the boundaries aren't healthy at all -- all sorts of horrible precedents have been set. It seems like continuing the relationship the way it's going (which is basically what you're saying..."people's support") is pretty much the worst idea possible. It tells her that her actions don't have consequences on her friendships, and it makes the OP feel helpless while sitting around worrying all day.

    Relationships should be thought of as trades. The pros should outweigh the cons for both sides. In this relationship, the cons outweigh the pros on both sides AND it looks like there's no realistic way to push it back towards the positive side.

    If she gets better, that would be great for everyone. The relationship can work then. But it's not working now. Not even close. And it's not his responsibility to try to change her, or anyone else.

    Codependence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (forget the bullshit 12 step part)

  7. #17
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    The options I've heard? Anger enough to want to hit her. Putting one's life on hold for her. Impressing upon her his worry.

    All options which aren't working. That's because they are aimed at changing the other person's behavior and not at changing his approach to her. We all know you can't change anyone else's behavior. A fool's game at best. Self-destructive at worst.

    How much does the OP know about love with detachment? That is the answer in any non-lifethreatening situation but it takes a great deal of understanding and hard work on the part of the person practicing it.

    When understood and done right it frees you to love a dysfunctional person without enabling their hold-you-captive games. And the nice side-effect is that it forces change in the other.

    It requires asking one's self what part they play in making it possible for the other to be dysfunctional and learning how not to do that. It's a good way to help someone you care about because it doesn't cut the emotional ties you have. So that when they are finally ready to ask for help you will still be an option for them.

    And it often works but takes a lot of energy and most people find it more convenient to opt out.

    This is what the OP needs to decide.
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    It sounds as if he's basically tried all the options.
    This is what is seemed like to me too.

    And it's just an opinion. I seriously doubt the OP, being INTJ is going to leap on my suggestion and run with it without thinking it out.

    But seriously, there are some really damaged people out there and they can become such a toxic drain on the people around them, sometimes all that can be done is to protect the self from being taken down with them. If someone is self-destructive and won't help themsevles and won't accept help from others, then what can anyone do?

    Edit: Evan answer is much better than mine.

  9. #19
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    clarifying...by ego stroking i don't just mean bs'ing her i mean the thing about us enfp's that i've seen is our self confidence is what enables us to be productive...we have to believe we are good at something we are doing and value ourselves in order to want to be with people and create positive situations around ourselves...i imagine she must be feeling the opposite...she needs to feel strong again...by believing in herself...knowing who she is what she stands for and what her unique gifts are help her discover them if you can...ask her questions...being supportive...say...you CAN do that! YOU are amazing at that! that's my opinion...for how i think i would feel in her place.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  10. #20
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    The options the OP listed were dysfunctional. A reaction to her rather than detached action on his part. Reactions like frustration and anger are there but can't lead the motivation to detach. They will keep you playing the game at an unhealthy level.
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

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