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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunnyz22 View Post
    dude. i work with race relations here at penn state. know what the equivalent is for white folk what "nigger" is for a black or "chink" is for a person of asian descent? -- it's "racist." white people won't put up with that shit - and furthermore, with this influx of "political correctness" we get butterfly coated poison like "i don't see color" "i'm color-blind" or "i really don't see race." right. (cos white folks learn that if you say you don't see color, you can't possibly be accused of being a racist.) when most white folk think "racism" they think interpersonal relationships.
    What institutional racism exists today?

    For the record, I am a mixed ethnic minority. I understand racism exists. Like prejudice for sexism, classism, or homophobia. However, I have yet to directly experience racism from anyone outside my own family. My non-Caucasian friends haven't experienced it either. Maybe, we are an isolated bunch, but it truly has yet to occur. There are people that see ethnicity as a physical indicator only. Not a factor to judge an entire group of supposedly similar people.

  2. #32
    Senior Member velocity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01011010 View Post
    What institutional racism exists today?

    For the record, I am a mixed ethnic minority. I understand racism exists. Like prejudice for sexism, classism, or homophobia. However, I have yet to directly experience racism from anyone outside my own family. My non-Caucasian friends haven't experienced it either. Maybe, we are an isolated bunch, but it truly has yet to occur.
    jobs, court cases, arrests, housing, income, modern slavery, even standards of beauty. environmental discrimination - penalties for violating hazardous waste laws is higher for polluting white areas (600%!), regardless of whether those are poor or wealthy white communities - mortgage discrimination - minorities twice as likely to be denied loans and need to pay higher mortgage rates than whites with equal income- automobile discrimination (haha), school funding from property taxes that insure communities of color will have poorer quality schools . legit studies and experiments done on all of these too. the evidence is very compelling. all of this is predicated and exacerbated by the history of immiseration from laws intended to keep blacks socio-economically downtrodden like the subsidies given to whites to leave the city and drain it of capital and opportunity (just as blacks began to move in), the g.i. bill, agricultural adjustment and wagner acts, our cia backed international coups, our marriages of convenience-for resources, forcing the third world to buy back their own exports with inflationary prices, etc etc)

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunnyz22 View Post
    jobs, court cases, arrests, housing, income, modern slavery, even standards of beauty. environmental discrimination - penalties for violating hazardous waste laws is higher for polluting white areas (600%!), regardless of whether those are poor or wealthy white communities - mortgage discrimination - minorities twice as likely to be denied loans and need to pay higher mortgage rates than whites with equal income- automobile discrimination (haha), school funding from property taxes that insure communities of color will have poorer quality schools . legit studies and experiments done on all of these too. the evidence is very compelling. all of this is predicated and exacerbated by the history of immiseration from laws intended to keep blacks socio-economically downtrodden like the subsidies given to whites to leave the city and drain it of capital and opportunity (just as blacks began to move in), the g.i. bill, agricultural adjustment and wagner acts, our cia backed international coups, our marriages of convenience-for resources, forcing the third world to buy back their own exports with inflationary prices, etc etc)
    Link legitimate sources proving it's racism at work, within the last 5-10 years.

  4. #34
    Senior Member velocity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01011010 View Post
    Link legitimate sources proving it's racism at work.
    i'm glad you want to learn and i'd be more than happy to show you a lot of studies, but understand that this is cumulative pedagogical and experiential work and learning i've been doing passionately in and out of the classroom - this means books, conversing with people of all backgrounds, a heavy sociology/political science/women's studies/monetary policy/ international relations/ black and african american studies/latin american studies/religious studies/history, etc course load to understand different cultures and different sides of the issue - in order to understand the disenfranchised whose voices have been muted by a very ideologically biased writen history. so i can't remember all the articles and books and notes i've made in class but i can give you some information that can be found if you google the terms as well:

    on the death penalty:
    Texas Death Penalty Blog: Dennis Kucinich's position on the Death Penalty

    mortage discrimination:
    ISS - Study finds mortgage discrimination

    environmental racism:
    POVERTY, POLLUTION AND ENVIRONMENTAL RACISM
    (ex: Radioactive colonialism operates in energy production (mining of uranium) and disposal of wastes on Indian lands. The legacy of institutional racism has left many sovereign Indian nations without an economic infrastructure to address poverty, unemployment, inadequate education and health care, and a host of other social problems.)

    drug war, drug arrests:
    Study Exposes Racism of War on Drugs | Drug, Arrests, Study

    plus,
    CRACK USERS in the U.S. (1998)
    Total: 971,000
    White: 462,000
    Black: 324,000
    Latino: 157,000
    Other: 28,000

    but now let's look at the arrest rates..
    ARRRESTED FOR CRACK POSSESSION in the U.S. (1994)
    10.3% were White
    84.5% were Black
    5.2% were Hispanic/Latino

    ARRESTED FOR CRACK TRAFFICKING in the U.S. (1994)
    4.1% were White
    88.3% were Black
    7.1% were Hispanic/Latino
    *Criminologists overwhelmingly agree that traffickers roughly mirror users so that the vast majority of people selling cocaine were/are white.

    COKE USERS in the U.S. (2000)
    Whites: 2.6 million
    Blacks: 340,000
    Latinos: 406,000
    Asians: 15,000
    Native Am: 48,000

    Arrests for Coke Possession in U.S. (1999)
    White & Hispanic = 150,667 (54%)
    Black = 126,239 (45%)
    Native American = 842 (<1%)
    Asian/Pacific Islander = 1,627 (<1%)


    Arrests for Coke Sales in U.S. (1999)
    White & Hispanic = 50,124 (38%)
    Black = 81,792 (62%)
    Native American = 253 (<1%)
    Asian/Pacific Islander = 509 (<1%)
    Keep in mind that a significant number of these “white” arrests are Hispanics/Latinos.

    *also ... the reason why cocaine (as well as pretty much every other drug) was made illegal in the u.s. was due to racism in the first place. the drug war is very racially intertwined.
    YouTube - History of Racism in Drug Laws - here's a video on this.

    and although you mentioned "recent" keep in mind that everything is predicated upon a history which has already created an uneven playing field for minorities - poverty persists and exacerbates the unbalanced access to opportunities. also, think about beauty. the amount of asians, especially females, having blepharoplasty (eyelid surgery to get a more "western" eye is staggering.)http://www.dailyvita.com/images/LorWhitePerfect.jpg

    i also learned about countless experiments and studies involving even sending out the same resume to the same business except with a different last name (an "ethnic") one and there was definitely some SIGNIFICANT racial bias in there. studies done in court when an offender with the same crime (they also trained the actors to talk, walk, and have the same mannerisms and age/sex and alleged socio-economic background and education- only difference being race) plead in a court case and minorities (around 14 times as much for blacks, 8.5 times as much for latinos, and 4.3 times as much for asians) to go to jail or get a harsher sentence.

    schools have become more segregated
    U.S. Schools Turn More Segregated, a Study Finds - New York Times
    U.S. school segregation on the rise: report | Lifestyle | Reuters
    ""It would be a tragedy if the country assumed from the Obama election that the problems of race have been solved, when many inequalities are actually deepening," said Gary Orfield, co-director of the Civil Rights Project."

    health care
    Institutional Racism in the US Health Care System

    Slavery in the Modern World &mdash; Infoplease.com
    Modern day slavery flourishes
    - and what are they making? OUR clothes, our wal-mart commodities, sustaining our unsustainable living standards. about 90% of mass produced chocolate (think hershey's, nestle) has at some point in its production been touched by a slave. and yes, our government and multi-national corporations support and fund this.

    it's awesome that you're surrounded by a culturally diverse people and have had the opportunity to travel, etc etc. however, i grew up in a predominantly white neighborhood and internalized a lot of the beliefs around me without questioning it - so this cause of honest exploration and conversation and questioning why we don't learn about these things is a one i'm personally committed to. when i first learned about how small my world was and how prejudiced i was, i was horrified and really went through a dark period. i can't turn my back on what i have learned, even if i wanted to (which i have, because it's not easy.) now, i'd just like to use my entp talents and whatever else i will cultivate and gain strength from to seek the truth and encourage honesty and openness all around me.

  5. #35
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    I am the blackest thing you'll ever NOT see
    i cannot contribute any exceptional racial encounter, since i don't allow people who are that ignorant to come into contact with me, for i only offer more than a handful of fleeting words at a time
    I N V I C T U S

  6. #36
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    Hmm, the direction of this thread does not surprise me at all.

    For those of you who want to debate whether racism exists, you can...by yourself. I'm not interested in that commonplace deflection.

    To those black folks who are too cowardly to have an honest discussion about race, and prefer to PROVE how unlike regular black folks they are due to their education, origins, and the whiteness of the neighborhoods they live in, I find you boring, typical, and statusy.

    To those black people who are too cowardly to admit they are black by using racially ambiguous terms like 'multiracial', your life must be as colorless as the grey area you seem most comfortable in. I prefer high-contrast color.

    All I asked for was tidbits from your lives to illustrate how type & blackness commingles, so we can begin to piece together some psychological profile that doesn't depend on Euro influence. What I learned instead is that black folks are still suckling on the tits of their oppressors, so much so, they can't bare to take the nipple out of their mouths and have an honest discussion. To folks who prefer false-harmony rather than honest discussion, continue as you wish, but it will be done without me.

  7. #37
    Senior Member velocity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by felt up View Post
    Hmm, the direction of this thread does not surprise me at all.

    For those of you who want to debate whether racism exists, you can...by yourself. I'm not interested in that commonplace deflection.

    To those black folks who are too cowardly to have an honest discussion about race, and prefer to PROVE how unlike regular black folks they are due to their education, origins, and the whiteness of the neighborhoods they live in, I find you boring, typical, and statusy.

    To those black people who are too cowardly to admit they are black by using racially ambiguous terms like 'multiracial', your life must be as colorless as the grey area you seem most comfortable in. I prefer high-contrast color.

    All I asked for was tidbits from your lives to illustrate how type & blackness commingles, so we can begin to piece together some psychological profile that doesn't depend on Euro influence. What I learned instead is that black folks are still suckling on the tits of their oppressors, so much so, they can't bare to take the nipple out of their mouths and have an honest discussion. To folks who prefer false-harmony rather than honest discussion, continue as you wish, but it will be done without me.
    wow. congratulations on alienating everyone who took the time out of their day to actually respond to your post and share their opinions, however "cowardly" they appear to you. i'm sorry you took their curiousity and life experience as "invalid" and "dishonest" - perhaps you know more about their lives than they themselves do? how very insightful.

    undermining other individuals' dignity has no place in any "open discussion" - i see nothing that warranted your crude analogies - and if you think such judgment would endear others to open up - think again. although you may identify bi and multi-racials as "black," - they may not feel that way themselves. understandably, different ancestral backgrounds, socio-economic statuses, and other backgrounds filter in to their particular life experience - and each one is just as crucial, important, and vivid to the understanding of our unique experiences in the context of the structures we were born into. where can you come in and judge when another's "black experience" begins? how can you even begin to isolate a bi-racial individual from their "european experience?" - it is crucial to understand the all the complexities and nuances in the entirety of someone's experience, and this is not limited to race or ethnicity.

    in response to your labeling of my "deflections" - i would say they are not deflections at all but a unique perspective and forthrightness i bring to the table. in this modern culture of political correctness, we hardly talk about racial issues - and i would like to thank everyone - whites and minorities - who expressed curiosity and support for my post in the form of private messaging and other communication. thank you. i applaud all those who responded to your post and shared their experiences and opinions and i do not subscribe to the divisive finger-pointing you demonstrated in your reply. if you seek honest discussion - appreciate and encourage the opinions of all those presented - and eventually, you may see that we're all standing on the same side, despite the harsh lines you have drawn.

  8. #38
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunnyz22 View Post
    i'm sorry you took their curiousity and life experience as "invalid" and "dishonest" - perhaps you know more about their lives than they themselves do? how very insightful.

    although you may identify bi and multi-racials as "black," - they may not feel that way themselves. understandably, different ancestral backgrounds, socio-economic statuses, and other backgrounds filter in to their particular life experience - and each one is just as crucial, important, and vivid to the understanding of our unique experiences in the context of the structures we were born into. where can you come in and judge when another's "black experience" begins? how can you even begin to isolate a bi-racial individual from their "european experience?"
    Exactly. If you are of mixed background, one background is not more important than all others. They all are a part of your experience. Personally, I was going to answer the OP but now I think my response will be inadequate for what the OP is asking for...

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunnyz22 View Post
    i'm glad you want to learn and i'd be more than happy to show you a lot of studies, but understand that this is cumulative pedagogical and experiential work and learning i've been doing passionately in and out of the classroom.
    Thank you for taking the time to cite sources.

    First of all, I will acknowledge institutional racism exists. Second, I am in no way justifying unequal treatment and prejudice from institutions trusted to be objective. I find it abhorrent. I really appreciate having this discussion with you. Third, I realize I have been blessed to live a certain lifestyle, and to have many ethnic minority friends that have as well. I'm beginning to understand class plays a big role in how one is perceived.


    • Drugs and Death Penalty: If someone is doing and dealing drugs, or commits a crime worth receiving the death penalty, they need to take responsibility. If racial profiling is as widely known as your suggesting, minorities especially, should conduct themselves within the lines of the law. If they know atypical prejudice is a possibility and they continue with the illegal action anyway, it's their price to pay. Avoid getting into the situation altogether. Fast food or janitorial work is far more respectable than a life of crime. There are options.



    • School Segregation: There are immigrants and ethnic minorities of low socioeconomic class, that cleave to living in a community largely populated by their own race. (i.e. China-town, Latin barrios etc.) I suspect language is a factor, along with being surrounded by shops and restaurants that remind them of their own culture. Where kids attend school is almost always determined by location. (I'm not stating exceptions don't exist, but it's more productive to address the majority.) If the poorer minorities have a problem with the schools their kids go to, they should move to another area. It makes no sense to expect other people to willingly move to low income areas, to give a broader demographic for race in that location.



    • Health Care: Clinics that accept government assisted insurance are going to be lower quality. While adequate health care should be available to everyone, it's currently not. (I do hope Obama does something about that.) As for general racism, I am sure it happens, especially in the south. As for minorities currently being discriminated against for med/dental school admission, it is rare. UCSF and UCLA has at least half (if not more) Asians in their programs. MCAT score and grades will be scrutinized most. As they should be.



    • Modern Slavery: Human trafficking occurs to every ethnicity. Arabs and Asians are notorious for purchasing females from Eastern Europe as sex slaves. In fact, Europeans purchase Caucasian females for sex trade within Europe itself. White on white slavery happens. American Fundamentalist Mormons (Caucasians) are guilty of purchasing female children from Europe for their polygamous arrangements. People of poor background all over the world, are targets.



    • Asian Blepharoplasty: Creased eyelids naturally occur in 50% of the population. Most are only receiving what they could have been born with. It's quite common for one sibling to have a defined eyelid crease, and another of the same genes without. It's not making the eyes more Caucasian. That would include a high semi-lunar crease procedure and an epicanthoplasty. The majority only want to look the best they can as defined by their ethnicity. That means having conservative surgery that doesn't change the muscles, adipose tissue, or other underlying features that make an eye "asian" in the first place. It's the same concept as Caucasians going in for an eye lift. They are only enhancing what is naturally there, not altering the entire structure itself. Reputable surgeons will rarely (if ever) perform Caucasian specific surgeries on ethnic minorities.



    • Mortgage Discrimination and Pollution: What a shame. I believe time is the answer for discrimination to some extent. Yet, I'm realistic enough to understand all types of prejudice will exist as long as life does. Also, something should actively be done about pollution.


    In Conclusion: It's up to the minority to create a better life. A decent percentage of Asians, Asian-Indians, Jews, and Middle Eastern immigrants, have all done so through their own hard work. (Academic settings have stereotypes about those minorities for a reason. Many become engineers, MDs, JDs, PhDs.) They had a similar starting point as the poor African-Americans and Hispanics that seem to be the main focus group of racial discrimination. Yet, the former chose to work hard and change their life. There are far too many "American Dream" successes (My friends' families are great examples.), for any ethnic group to make excuses about why they aren't prospering. It's within their control. If an ethnic minority settles for that kind of life, they have no one to blame but themselves. Caucasians aren't exempt from a disadvantaged education and gang life either. Those aren't excuses. Racism rarely stops anyone from going to school and becoming successful in this day and age. If an individual is intelligent (talented, skilled, or business minded) and hunger for more, they will make it. It's natural selection. Survival of the fittest. Racism (in most cases), is just another obstacle to overcome, on the way to the top.

  10. #40
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    I'm black, and INFJ. And a teenager. My problem isn't with whites, in fact my school's like 3% white, if that. But I've always been afraid of African-Americans, because my elementary was 92% black and was made fun of on a constant basis. I just don't identify with black culture. It's not who I am. I just like being myself.

    But then again, I get the same clout from the Filipinos at my school now for not being black enough also. I hate it. I just wish I could be myself. I can't stand either spectrum.

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