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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimahn View Post
    I agree with the intense focus on school of some African immigrants. That's a very important distinction that people often overlook. But from my perspective it's similar to those we often place with people of Asian origin (India, China, Japan). I know that for a fact a disturbingly large proportion of people who are middle class who are immigrants have an aptitude and intense passion for education. I had a number of Indian friends and a great majority had parents who had Phds in very technical fields, and they had a large amount of pressure and focus when it came to their grades. Personally my dad and a lot of his friends have Phds as well. It's almost a requisite for having a chance to emmigrate over here, it's rather rigorous.

    Anyways there is a little bit of a dynamic at play just within that distinction of African immigrant verse African American, especially depending on what socio-economic area you fall within. I know most of my schools that I've attended, In England, Canada, and here in the states, there has been a noticeable dynamic in play. My schools have been disproportionately white, 90+ percent on most occasions.

    Actually it’s the other way around, Aimahn. To immigrate and to afford travel across the world to the united states, most likely you would have to be both educated and middle class. And very motivated to begin with. And with a goal in mind. It’s unfair to compare newly transported immigrants with those who’ve lived here and lived under certain depressed conditions. My parents were immigrants once and brought me here as a young child. They were once very arrogant about the things they achieved over “just plain ole black folks” but got over it quickly once they had a chance to settle in and observe. I don’t know how long you’ve been here, but it’s naive to think (your) education somehow transcends (other people’s) racism.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimahn View Post
    Conformity is something that often comes into play. One of my sisters friends was African American and although he was incredibly smart he tried hard to keep that from being noticed. He did try and play up the stereotypical African-American culture, overly so at times, just to sort of fit in and considered more true. He was a great honors student that went off to George Washington, but surprisingly most people who saw him would have never guessed he was even noticeably smart.
    Actually Aimahn, I routinely notice the same kind of conformity on message boards like this. There is some sort of pride in assimilating to the mores and language of whites, and pretending that skin color is a ‘non-issue’ and we’ve somehow graduated to some ‘post-racial’ world. If that’s really so…how come more black MBTIs don’t openly offer scenes from their lives? I never want to conform to any particular group, so when I see it, it doesn’t sit well with me. It feels faux on so many different levels. When I see a black kid dragging his pants down to look cool or a black guy on a message board being ‘racially ambiguous’ if feels the same to me – disingenuous.

  3. #23
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    This is a very interesting thread. I never realized that Africans did all that stuff just to "fit in."

    I know another (excuse the term) black guy, he's also an INFP. I've known him since I was like 9. It's odd, he puts on that stereotype mask but then shows his true self to me.
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

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  4. #24
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    Thanks for sharing that story feltup, I appreciate how thoughtful you were and you open up a very different and not much talked about channel -- not just on MBTIc but in terms of personality and psychological analysis.

    Being a person of color, a 'sexual minority', etc. rarely makes its way into an analysis of 'universal psychological theory' or the overall 'human experience'. Though some modern day psychological literature will cite 'being from a minority group' as a potential factor for depression (I could almost LOL at that...but no).

    The stress of being from a marginalized community or the 'odd man out' can be intense, but coupled with pre-existing mental health issues or just really plain sensitivity or the idiosyncracies of personality type -- it can really push people over the edge. It of course depends very much on the invidual how they respond and take things, even within the same type and the same community, people will take what their environment gives them and process things very differently. Because of course, they are different people.

    I don't want to hijack the thread but I do agree that the experience of being in a 'marginalized' group can make people more isolated and susceptible to falling over the edge or going undiagnosed with mental health issues, depression, etc.

    You could tie it back purely in terms of socio-economic access to knowledge and medicine and just a network that is looking out for you -- but I think it really is a cultural/psychological issue and the reality of being from a dominant vs non-dominant group.

    I hope your friend is found safe...
    “If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.” ― Oscar Wilde

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  5. #25
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haight View Post
    I'm afraid that you are the only black person on the forum.
    Nope; Black INTP Aspie in the house!
    (Yeah, it's very difficult, and we really don't fit in in that subculture, which seems to be heavily SJ, with some NTJ and on the lighter side, SFP thrown in there).
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

    Temperament (APS) from scratch -- MBTI Type from scratch
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  6. #26
    Senior Member Simplexity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by felt up View Post
    Actually Aimahn, I routinely notice the same kind of conformity on message boards like this. There is some sort of pride in assimilating to the mores and language of whites, and pretending that skin color is a ‘non-issue’ and we’ve somehow graduated to some ‘post-racial’ world. If that’s really so…how come more black MBTIs don’t openly offer scenes from their lives? I never want to conform to any particular group, so when I see it, it doesn’t sit well with me. It feels faux on so many different levels. When I see a black kid dragging his pants down to look cool or a black guy on a message board being ‘racially ambiguous’ if feels the same to me – disingenuous.
    Define racially ambiguous?
    My cold, snide, intellectual life is just a veneer, behind which lies the plywood of loneliness.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    A sad story indeed. I do, however, wonder why the guy was living with his father at the ripe old age of 28?

    It seems as if he was maladjusted to his surroundings and life in general; perhaps an unhealthy INTP. Everybody has their own unique difficulties in life that they must learn to overcome. Being black and INTP certainly brings its own unique challenges. The combination of being an introvert, a nerd/geek, a recluse who doesn't need the same level of interaction in society, or with individuals, as other types, and a racial minority where the dominant culture is often times in opposition to the inherent nature of our type is difficult. Then to compound it by being surrounded by those of a different race and culture makes it that much harder to relate to and find easy acceptance from those around you. But no matter your disposition, if you want something bad enough you can obtain it. If you want to form bridges with people and gain acceptance, despite the obstacles in your way, then it can be done. Otherwise, in such a situation it just wont come easily. Personally, I'm in the same boat. I choose to focus on academics so I can forge a good life down the road. Friends and social interaction are things I've had to put on the back burner, and being a black INTP in a mostly white community, those things don't usually float my way of their own accord.
    Since I have two degrees and I’m in my 40s and I am an INFJ, I’m going to burst your bubble and let you know that your college degree will not prepare you for the life you are about to lead. Especially if you are indeed black, male and INTP.

    (Okay, I must digress a minute. PET PEEVE: I am so god-damned tired of black people talking about their edyumucations as if it is a soft, sweet little pillow that will buffer them against all ills. People with new money and new education seem to be cut from the same cloth. Ugh. Beyond annoying.)

    Now…I do understand what you are telling me about building bridges, but it’s a lot of work, and you’ll notice it’s always YOU who has to be understanding of other folks’ ignorance and quite honestly, if you were an INTP you would probably find it exhausting and check out.

    I’ve done this. I elect not to burden myself. I share when I can if I feel I don’t have to explain certain aspects of my life repeatedly. Just getting other folks to a level where they can understand me and then proceed from there often takes energy I’m unwilling to expend. I can tell you – black folks don’t get me, white folks don’t get me, people of my own age don’t get me and think my personal style is nuts and immature, dating is impossible so I’ll never find love, other INFJs seem to be leery of me, and my own family would prefer I get medicated in order to deal with life. I refuse to exist under any of those conditions. I’m not an assimilationist on any front, so I’m often ostracized for not attempting to conform. When I was younger I felt a lot more pressure, but realized soon enough, I couldn’t live with the double-co…no…triple-consciousness that I’m naturally expected to as a black woman. There is no buffer for me. I get that this life is mine to go alone. And that if I at times have people who join me for the ride, I should expect that it will be temporary.

  8. #28
    Senior Member Simplexity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by felt up View Post
    Actually it’s the other way around, Aimahn. To immigrate and to afford travel across the world to the united states, most likely you would have to be both educated and middle class. And very motivated to begin with. And with a goal in mind. It’s unfair to compare newly transported immigrants with those who’ve lived here and lived under certain depressed conditions. My parents were immigrants once and brought me here as a young child. They were once very arrogant about the things they achieved over “just plain ole black folks” but got over it quickly once they had a chance to settle in and observe. I don’t know how long you’ve been here, but it’s naive to think (your) education somehow transcends (other people’s) racism.
    Hmmm. I'm not really sensing the message you intended to get across with your post. I don't know where the transcendence came about, but I was actually referring to there being a barrier of entry in terms of education to a large degree to gain acceptance into this country so to speak. In terms of the effects that I see personally, that once again would be skewed, because I've never lived in an environment that wasn't middle class in North America. I did live in Africa myself for a good while and have visited periodically and the conditions were much worse overall than a striking percentage of communities here. My dad lived on a farm and had to really self sustain, he didn't even have some of the handy farm technologies that would make the work that much easier. Little infrastructure to speak off. In terms of arrogance, I don't know where that came across either, I've encountered all levels of class, at least when looked at respectively from the standards people in the U.S have. I've encountered more than my majority of races as well. Lived in 3 continents and 4 countries for a decent bit so I think I have some perspective of race relations.
    My cold, snide, intellectual life is just a veneer, behind which lies the plywood of loneliness.

  9. #29
    Senior Member velocity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by felt up View Post
    Your perception of what those two black kids experienced may not be based in reality. Black folk are really good at hiding their feelings when they’re among whites in an academic setting. Racism and prejudice is not so tangible that you can readily observe with your eyes. Both times I was in college I experienced plenty of it and I never once uttered a word to my white friends. I’m sure they’re somewhere now, extrapolating on my behalf on my supposed color-blind education! Also, I find it interesting that someone who acknowledges differences in personality type is so quick to say that “Race was a non-issue in that milieu.”
    dude. i work with race relations here at penn state. know what the equivalent is for white folk what "nigger" is for a black or "chink" is for a person of asian descent? -- it's "racist." white people won't put up with that shit - and furthermore, with this influx of "political correctness" we get butterfly coated poison like "i don't see color" "i'm color-blind" or "i really don't see race." right. (cos white folks learn that if you say you don't see color, you can't possibly be accused of being a racist.) when most white folk think "racism" they think interpersonal relationships .. when really a lot of racism is institutionalized racism - the shit we don't see. the subsidies given to white folk in history, the g.i. bill, the exploitation of "free" blacks in a jim-crow post-civil war south that CREATED THIS UNEQUAL PLAYING FIELD. but it's hard for white folk to acknowledge racism because it doesn't seem like it's happening - they don't see it in their worlds - to them, they've had to work hard and have had their own problems and are unable to see, despite all the hardships, white privilege helping them out - so they are quick to be defensive about their equanimity, etc. (here's a good article on this: http://www.unh.edu/residential-life/..._article17.pdf). i have stereotypes about blacks, whites, latinos, and asians - and i look forward to growing and interacting and honestly talking (even if that means finger pointing and complaining about the "other" side) in order to grow and free myself from these insidious political socializations. there's a lot of schisms between minority groups too - for example between "african americans" and newly immigrated "blacks" (who are often pretty upper class to be able to come to the u.s. in the first place). it's fascinating - the shit we don't know.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by felt up View Post
    Your perception of what those two black kids experienced may not be based in reality. Black folk are really good at hiding their feelings when they’re among whites in an academic setting.
    The program was half ethnic minorities and half caucasian. (50 total) We lived in a dorm apart from normal college students, and hung out only with each other. The other kids were peers, friends, and some even became like family. It wasn't relegated to academics only. All we had was each other, until break when we were allowed to go back home.


    Also, I find it interesting that someone who acknowledges differences in personality type is so quick to say that “Race was a non-issue in that milieu.”
    Two completely, unrelated categories. Logical fallacy.


    Quote Originally Posted by felt up View Post
    I’m in my 40s and I am an INFJ, I’m going to burst your bubble and let you know that your college degree will not prepare you for the life you are about to lead. Especially if you are indeed black, male and INTP.
    First of all, you're 40. You grew up in an entirely different generation than most of the posters on this board. There's an African-American president now. It was only possible, because the majority has shifted their views on ethnicity in this regard.

    You're not the spokesperson for all blacks, much less INFJs and INTPs. The INTP you described comes off incredibly autistic. He wasn't even someone you actually knew on a personal level. Your biased perception, on top of another person's biased opinion, is hardly truth. That variable throws a wrench in the examination. A single example isn't enough to decipher a broader issue. If you have an actual sample size to pull data from, by all means share. What you have provided, has given no credibility to state unequivically, what a black XY/INTP will go through.

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