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  1. #11
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    Well there are tons of immigrants (read: black folks) and they take school and other expectations way more serious then the swedish people (read: white folks). The swedish culture is to messed up in generall, you usually learn to have apathy as a virtue from a young age.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by lorkan View Post
    Well there are tons of immigrants (read: black folks) and they take school and other expectations way more serious then the swedish people (read: white folks). The swedish culture is to messed up in generall, you usually learn to have apathy as a virtue from a young age.
    I agree with the intense focus on school of some African immigrants. That's a very important distinction that people often overlook. But from my perspective it's similar to those we often place with people of Asian origin (India, China, Japan). I know that for a fact a disturbingly large proportion of people who are middle class who are immigrants have an aptitude and intense passion for education. I had a number of Indian friends and a great majority had parents who had Phds in very technical fields, and they had a large amount of pressure and focus when it came to their grades. Personally my dad and a lot of his friends have Phds as well. It's almost a requisite for having a chance to emmigrate over here, it's rather rigorous.

    Anyways there is a little bit of a dynamic at play just within that distinction of African immigrant verse African American, especially depending on what socio-economic area you fall within. I know most of my schools that I've attended, In England, Canada, and here in the states, there has been a noticeable dynamic in play. My schools have been disproportionately white, 90+ percent on most occasions.
    My cold, snide, intellectual life is just a veneer, behind which lies the plywood of loneliness.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimahn View Post
    I agree with the intense focus on school of some African immigrants. That's a very important distinction that people often overlook. But from my perspective it's similar to those we often place with people of Asian origin (India, China, Japan). I know that for a fact a disturbingly large proportion of people who are middle class who are immigrants have an aptitude and intense passion for education. I had a number of Indian friends and a great majority had parents who had Phds in very technical fields, and they had a large amount of pressure and focus when it came to their grades. Personally my dad and a lot of his friends have Phds as well. It's almost a requisite for having a chance to emmigrate over here, it's rather rigorous.

    Anyways there is a little bit of a dynamic at play just within that distinction of African immigrant verse African American, especially depending on what socio-economic area you fall within. I know most of my schools that I've attended, In England, Canada, and here in the states, there has been a noticeable dynamic in play. My schools have been disproportionately white, 90+ percent on most occasions.
    I've yet to see a 12 year old college prodigy that isn't Asian (Chinese?). The prestigious programs accept one 12 year old per year. Don't forget the Jews. Also, Middle Eastern people that have a chance to go to school, seem to get grad level degrees too.

    The early college program most of my friends went to, was definitely populated by at least half (conservative estimate), Asian-Indians and Asians. The African(?) students were Americans. So, I'm unable to confirm any stereotype.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimahn View Post

    Anyways there is a little bit of a dynamic at play just within that distinction of African immigrant verse African American, especially depending on what socio-economic area you fall within. I know most of my schools that I've attended, In England, Canada, and here in the states, there has been a noticeable dynamic in play. My schools have been disproportionately white, 90+ percent on most occasions.
    Exactly. It varies quite a lot between immigrants from Africa or other places, how long/how many generations they have been in the U.S., etc. Usually though, I've noticed the immigrant parents are very education focused and forging good careers with their education. Their kids may or may not follow that same spirit. Like here in San Diego we have a lot of Somalians. The way they used to act in high school you may scarcely recognize that they are middle class citizens :/. Their parents are usually very well educated and wealthy, but the kids seem to take to the black American culture and mindset, trapping them in a state of academic underachievement and crime.

    Anyway, what was this thread about? Black INFJ's and INTP's? Beyond those types, I've seen 6 black people on this forum, including myself.

  5. #15
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    Thanks for your OP, Felt. That was a touching story and a good reminder to me to reach out when I see people in distress.
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

  6. #16
    Senior Member Simplexity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01011010 View Post
    I've yet to see a 12 year old college prodigy that isn't Asian (Chinese?). The prestigious programs accept one 12 year old per year. Don't forget the Jews. Also, Middle Eastern people that have a chance to go to school, seem to get grad level degrees too.

    The early college program most of my friends went to, was definitely populated by at least half (conservative estimate), Asian-Indians and Asians. The African(?) students were Americans. So, I'm unable to confirm any stereotype.
    I was talking generally about stereotypes and emphasizing the distinction of African immigrants. In terms of Asian immigrants populating the elites of colleges, there is little doubt about that. I was just referencing from my perspective and the network of friends my parents have, that a good portion of them have also distinguished themselves academically. It skews the overall sample because as you might have encountered, people do not often step back and make distinctions like that.

    There are a lot of factors at play when you mention broad stereotypes. In my personal case I notice how large a difference there is between African culture and African American culture. I would assume there would be something similar between Asian and Asian-American, or American culture. Conformity is something that often comes into play. One of my sisters friends was African American and although he was incredibly smart he tried hard to keep that from being noticed. He did try and play up the stereotypical African-American culture, overly so at times, just to sort of fit in and considered more true. He was a great honors student that went off to George Washington, but surprisingly most people who saw him would have never guessed he was even noticeably smart.
    My cold, snide, intellectual life is just a veneer, behind which lies the plywood of loneliness.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by felt up View Post
    ...I know you're here. Show yourself. Be heard. Share your life experience. We exist. The world needs to know this.

    Why am I starting this thread?

    I've been obsessed lately with the disappearance of a young, black INTP who lived in my apartment building. Years ago, when I first saw him, I knew we understood each other. I saw the familiar look of loneliness, invisibility, despair, misunderstanding, invalidation and bristling intelligence. At the time, I never saw the urgency to have a conversation with him. Strange...especially since we'd show up around town in completely different places - at research libraries to rock concerts. But never a conversation.

    That is until I noticed changes in his behavior. He used to follow me around my neighborhood - at the grocery store, shoe repair, park, and laundromat. Like, in a stalkerish way, yet harmless. I was never bothered by it, and later I made attempts to speak to him, but he used to brush past me and go about his business. I think maybe he had aspergers. I didn't try to force a conversation if he was too uncomfortable. One day at our mailboxes, he forced out "hello" and then moved swiftly. I saw his struggle and I knew he made some kind of progress. I was happy for him and thought maybe we'd speak at another time.

    That is until I saw flyers of his face plastered everywhere in my neighborhood. Apparently he had been missing for 3 months. Someone identified himself as his father, and I express my concern to him and tell the father about his son's actions hoping that it'll help find him. The police put in little effort to find this 28 year old black male and assumed he went off by himself.

    The father, an ISFP, and I have long, long conversations about his son in the following weeks. Let me just say, the father is completely clueless and reminds me of my own mother. He has a low threshold for understanding his son's pain and seems nonchalant and unaffected about his disappearance.

    In our conversations, I'm seeing the life of the son so vividly that I can feel every interaction between them. I could almost see what would drive the son to want to run off with absolutely no money, no contacts, nothing. My hope is that he didn't commit suicide and that maybe he's elected to become homeless somewhere.

    So anyway, the father tells me he was the smartest kid in class at every school he went to, yet he was disbelieved and treated like he cheated to get those grades, or he was some idiot savant. He put in very little effort and received great grades, but seemed to not care about anything for years. The father said the son would sit in silence for hours, days, and years without uttering a single word his entire life. The son was a brilliant painter and photographer, but never held a job. The father pushed him to go to the best university in the city. And finally the son has something to say - "I hate those fucking white kids." Apparently he said this a lot in the weeks before his disappearance.

    Now, why am I telling you this? Guilt. I knew what he would go though, because I've been through those same things. I should have been more proactive. I think about the son and the development of his life everyday, and how his blackness & INTPness impacted his life and/or death. Especially living in a world that doesn't expect black males to be brilliant or have ideas or become president. I often wonder if he lived to see Barack Obama become president.

    Anyway, I truly feel there should be a space for black INFJs and INTPs to express the tone and texture of their lives. I'd be interested for my own research, because no one studies the specifics in personality type among blacks in the African Diaspora. It's just easy to see us as one big monolithic group who acts, feels and thinks in the same manner.
    A sad story indeed. I do, however, wonder why the guy was living with his father at the ripe old age of 28?

    It seems as if he was maladjusted to his surroundings and life in general; perhaps an unhealthy INTP. Everybody has their own unique difficulties in life that they must learn to overcome. Being black and INTP certainly brings its own unique challenges. The combination of being an introvert, a nerd/geek, a recluse who doesn't need the same level of interaction in society, or with individuals, as other types, and a racial minority where the dominant culture is often times in opposition to the inherent nature of our type is difficult. Then to compound it by being surrounded by those of a different race and culture makes it that much harder to relate to and find easy acceptance from those around you. But no matter your disposition, if you want something bad enough you can obtain it. If you want to form bridges with people and gain acceptance, despite the obstacles in your way, then it can be done. Otherwise, in such a situation it just wont come easily. Personally, I'm in the same boat. I choose to focus on academics so I can forge a good life down the road. Friends and social interaction are things I've had to put on the back burner, and being a black INTP in a mostly white community, those things don't usually float my way of their own accord.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimahn View Post
    I was talking generally about stereotypes and emphasizing the distinction of African immigrants. In terms of Asian immigrants populating the elites of colleges, there is little doubt about that. I was just referencing from my perspective and the network of friends my parents have, that a good portion of them have also distinguished themselves academically. It skews the overall sample because as you might have encountered, people do not often step back and make distinctions like that.

    There are a lot of factors at play when you mention broad stereotypes. In my personal case I notice how large a difference there is between African culture and African American culture. I would assume there would be something similar between Asian and Asian-American, or American culture. Conformity is something that often comes into play. One of my sisters friends was African American and although he was incredibly smart he tried hard to keep that from being noticed. He did try and play up the stereotypical African-American culture, overly so at times, just to sort of fit in and considered more true. He was a great honors student that went off to George Washington, but surprisingly most people who saw him would have never guessed he was even noticeably smart.
    I wasn't opposing your observation at all. Just expanding on info that I'm personally familiar with. I will agree there is a difference between immigrant culture and ethnic groups that are citizens, that have assimilated into the larger American culture.

    However, I'm not aware of what your referring to in terms of "stereotypical African-American culture." All the Black-Americans I've known are well educated and overachieving. They act like everyone else I'm acquainted with.

  9. #19
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    I'm really rather sad and worried that they have no idea what happened to that kid.
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  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01011010 View Post
    I went to a gifted, early college program. There were two black males in my graduating class (13 total). It's widely known ethnic minorities comprise close to 60+% of those programs, especially the ones with a science and math focused curriculum. Either way, I never witnessed prejudice directed towards Africans(?) (Cuban, Haitian or Caribbean blacks). In fact, they dated mostly Caucasian girls and no one ever thought anything of it. Race was a non-issue in that milieu, and for my childhood friends in similar programs at other universities.

    As for MBTI, I guarantee there was an atypical amount of NTs there. My closest friend from the program to this day, also has the Asperger disorder.
    Your perception of what those two black kids experienced may not be based in reality. Black folk are really good at hiding their feelings when they’re among whites in an academic setting. Racism and prejudice is not so tangible that you can readily observe with your eyes. Both times I was in college I experienced plenty of it and I never once uttered a word to my white friends. I’m sure they’re somewhere now, extrapolating on my behalf on my supposed color-blind education! Also, I find it interesting that someone who acknowledges differences in personality type is so quick to say that “Race was a non-issue in that milieu.”

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