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  1. #1
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Default NFs and impersonal approach

    In real life and on this forum many NFs said that dispassionate approach scares them a lot below the surface.
    They say it is scary because if there is no their emotional intensity everything would be quite boring and nothing would have any real point or beauty. So life would be quite horrble existance if it were like this.
    Only thing what I am trying to do is to understand this need to be amused so often (I don't how else to name this)
    I am sure that there will be some generalization in this thread but I don't not how to create it without it. Also I am sure that this is not only a F/T thing.


    Often it happened that an F thinks that something, an object I like and make sure to stay close to that or it can be a idea also. In short, I am talking about something that people see as sacred to me.
    But then problem appears and I rollover those things or throw them away or reject the idea since it is no longer.......... (correct or useful)


    But if an F is watching this, it gets horrfied by this approach. I would dare to say that at some moments it looks like that their heart is broken just by watching ot listening to this.


    I can argue with an NF for some time and I don't get exiced over it. While NF need sometime to calm down. Also it looks like that they are quite frustrated because of mine impersonal approach.
    Is it so hard to understand that I am attacking your position over something not you as a person? Or those two are same for NFs?


    If someone wants to explain they are free to try. I am more interested in explanation of NFs (and SFs) then other opinions since I know theory.
    I want practical insight why NFs don't like this.

  2. #2
    Senor Membrane
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    I don't have much time, but here's a couple of points...

    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    Only thing what I am trying to do is to understand this need to be amused so often (I don't how else to name this)
    I think it is need for connection, actually. We relate with people through feelings. If a person doesn't seem to have feeling, how to relate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    I can argue with an NF for some time and I don't get exiced over it. While NF need sometime to calm down.
    Yeah, you are right. It is sometimes an effort to keep cool. I guess that is because there is some emotional connection to the concepts that are perceived true and important. I might turn the question back at you: Do you apply your concepts into your life? Are they still seen as impersonal? If you live your life according to an idea, is it easy for you to argue against that idea? For me the only ideas I will fight for and get upset about are the ones that define me. So, if you convinced me otherwise it would be the same as taking away my life style.

  3. #3
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    for me personally...i just don't tend to argue unless i'm personally attached to my belief and often...i feel it's my right to have it and not yours to attempt to dissuade me...so i'm likely to take issue with that.

    i'm basically just extremely accepting of everyone's right to their own opinion and expect the same in return...but if asked will gladly share my view.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  4. #4
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    I think it is need for connection, actually. We relate with people through feelings. If a person doesn't seem to have feeling, how to relate?
    I am familiar with this but this actaully explains the"Do you feel anything" question.
    The thing is that communication between me an NFs can be hard since they have trouble reading me.


    Yeah, you are right. It is sometimes an effort to keep cool. I guess that is because there is some emotional connection to the concepts that are perceived true and important. I might turn the question back at you: Do you apply your concepts into your life? Are they still seen as impersonal? If you live your life according to an idea, is it easy for you to argue against that idea? For me the only ideas I will fight for and get upset about are the ones that define me. So, if you convinced me otherwise it would be the same as taking away my life style.
    If I have the right picture of term "Concept" the answer is yes.
    Well, to tell you the truth. I am not sure that I know a person that does not think that I should be more passionate and playful.

    As for arguing against idea part that something I was preserving for later but It can be said now.

    Yes I can argue a idea/position that is not mine and I can do it quite well.
    For example me a some other person agree about something.
    But I can take the opposite opinion and argue that one as my own.
    What people find shocking and/or insane. But the I don't think this way since the only way to truly test ideas can be debated in many cases.
    So if there is no one on the opposite side I don't have a problem with it.

    This is where problems NFs start. First they have problems reading me plus now I am saying what I don't think in some cases. Which would not be that bad if few days before they did not hear my position.


    Not to mention that I feel not loyalty toward ideas. I can think something one day. Think about it over night or have an insight and tomorrow morning I can be against it.



    Quote Originally Posted by erinavery View Post
    for me personally...i just don't tend to argue unless i'm personally attached to my belief and often...i feel it's my right to have it and not yours to attempt to dissuade me...so i'm likely to take issue with that.

    i'm basically just extremely accepting of everyone's right to their own opinion and expect the same in return...but if asked will gladly share my view.
    You and I had one similar conversation before.

    I don't mind that someone has a belief it is just that this can be bad if it turns to dogma. I as a person think that questioning others peoples position(s) is good.

  5. #5
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    that's cool if it's something you do in order to clarify your own thoughts but not so cool if the objective is to change theirs.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  6. #6
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erinavery View Post
    that's cool if it's something you do in order to clarify your own thoughts but not so cool if the objective is to change theirs.

    Would you care to explain your logic?

  7. #7
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    i mean if you ask for my opinion and then you go about trying to change it...i'd tell you to bugger off.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  8. #8
    Senior Member Wild horses's Avatar
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    I know exactly what you mean actually Erina... sometimes it feels like their main objective is to argue for argument sake they demand the right to have their opinion but deny you the same liberty
    ... couldn't drag me away

    eljko Ranatovic: argus
    eljko Ranatovic: do you want heir's?
    WildHorses: HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
    eljko Ranatovic: to carry your genealogical code??

  9. #9
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    exactly.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post

    I can argue with an NF for some time and I don't get exiced over it. While NF need sometime to calm down. Also it looks like that they are quite frustrated because of mine impersonal approach.
    Is it so hard to understand that I am attacking your position over something not you as a person? Or those two are same for NFs?


    I have to say that this rarely applies to INFJs, who usually can and do argue every side of a debate, often within the same conversation. On the other hand, there are a few (very few) moral positions that I believe in absolutely. When someone I respect and care about argues unrelentingly against something that I feel very strongly about then I do take it very personally. But even then, it is rarely that I feel like I am being attacked but more that I feel disappointed and angry that someone I love cannot see the immorality of their own position.

    And just so I don't come across as a totally self-righteous douchebage, there are very very few issues that I feel this way about and they almost all involve human rights.

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