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  1. #1
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Default The ENFJ shadow...

    Not the shadow type. This isn't some joke about the inner ISTP.

    No, I mean the darkness within. The fear, the doubt, the cynicism, the worry--the black side of too much love. The mark left by always turning to the positive, the sweet, the nice--the shadow that does most of your talking for you. The thing you say isn't there, but is forever there--the reason you're so "nice".

    Know what I mean?

  2. #2
    Member jaku's Avatar
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    i'm scared
    So you were born, and that is a good day.
    And someday you'll die and what a shame.
    But somewhere in the between, theres a life in which we all dream,
    And nothing and no one will ever take that away.

  3. #3
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Default

    It doesn't exist?

  4. #4
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    The thing you say isn't there, but is forever there--the reason you're so "nice". Know what I mean?
    They're nice because they've got a dark black evil meanie monster inside of them?
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  5. #5
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Default

    Yeah.

    Oh, wait-- no.

    Because the other side of Fe is the inside.


    Don't look at me, I'm INTJ--what do I know about togetherness and brotherhood and love and safe places to share deepest worry?


    (Ah well, that'll scare away the bunnies and Bambi.)



    Edit: Hm, okay...

    I ask because the shadow and coming to terms with it seems central to the process of maturation for someone tending toward ENFJ type choices.


    Edit 2: oh, hey, how Tony Robbins do I sound today...

    Truth is, I'm just asking because I want to know. It's one way of coming to terms with stuff that's happened in my life this last year. Help a brother out.

    ("Help a brother out"? Jeez. What am I today, an INTP-wannabe?)

  6. #6
    EvanTheClown (ETC) Clownmaster's Avatar
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    Default

    eh, i'm no ENFJ, and no disrespect, but i think you're full of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach
    Truth is, I'm just asking because I want to know. It's one way of coming to terms with stuff that's happened in my life this last year. Help a brother out.
    ^whatever real-life example happened might just be a quirk of the ENFJ you know.

    Because you can't spell "Slaughter" without "Laughter"

  7. #7
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EvanTheClown View Post
    eh, i'm no ENFJ, and no disrespect, but i think you're full of it.


    ^whatever real-life example happened might just be a quirk of the ENFJ you know.

    I don't think he's full of it at all. He's one of the few people on the forum who has tried to understand Fe beyond the typical social niceties and Hallmark card superficial understanding people have about it. I appreciate his inquiries and think he has a lot of good ideas and is trying to understand the nuts and bolts of a function everybody thinks they get.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  8. #8
    Senior Member Kestrel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    I don't think he's full of it at all. He's one of the few people on the forum who has tried to understand Fe beyond the typical social niceties and Hallmark card superficial understanding people have about it. I appreciate his inquiries and think he has a lot of good ideas and is trying to understand the nuts and bolts of a function everybody thinks they get.
    Exactly. I can't count the number of times Fe has been misunderstood and lambasted because its such an easy target.

    I don't really see the "nice nice" or "fake" qualities of Fe types that other people claim are there. This is probably just the reality that most people can't see the intentions behind Fe users.

    The Fe dominant people I've known in my life have been judged and feared by most, understood and appreciated by few.
    I-44 N-88 F-62 J-67

    A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty. -Winston Churchill

  9. #9
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
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    Everyone has a shadow to them, they just don't let most people see it.
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

    sCueI (primary Inquisition)

  10. #10
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Default

    We can broaden the topic to ESFJs, y'know...

    Or to INTJs... what is this damn Se and why does it always fill me with dread?



    This shadow thing...

    I'm gonna go ahead and be clinical for a moment, and it's going to sound like dissecting frogs, and for that I ask forgiveness, but...

    normally when I happen across a person who pays attention to the people around them, and does, without difficulty, mingle immediately and easily if s/he decides it's time to, who announces positive messages, and who seems--anxious?--then I call ENFJ. Inordinately anxious. Anxious in a way that's out of step with his or her positive messages.

    I believe perhaps that I am aware of that--is it anxiety?--being calmed,--soothed perhaps?--, when smooth, satisfactory, I guess harmonious interaction, or maybe just environment, prevails.

    Or something.

    This isn't natural. It isn't accident. There's an engine that drives this. For no really good reason I have an image of it as big and powerful and hidden and looming.

    Some experience suggests it is not at all a gentle tiger.


    And all of that is merely as seen through my microscope. And since people aren't the mannequins I so easily view them as...

    I think maybe the ENFJ shadow--and by that I mean the dark side, inside--is judgment.


    ps. I think Fe gets called fake mostly only by Fi users. Fe, maybe particularly Fe Dom, just does look like the person is NOT paying attention to what's inside themselves. Fi users, if they did that themselves, would call themselves fake.

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