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  1. #11
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
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    Ever seen an Fi dominant's shadow?
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

    sCueI (primary Inquisition)

  2. #12
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post
    Ever seen an Fi dominant's shadow?
    Nup.

    I know only one obvious INFP. And I haven't ever heard him speak of having something looming over his choices and actions, something that causes him to resist and retreat.

    But then, I've only spoken seriously with him twice, once to lecture on the merits of ENTJs and once to complain about ENFJs. He didn't get much of word in edgewise. (Mythbusted: that INTJs are good listeners.)

    What's the Fi Dom shadow?

  3. #13
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    What are you talking about? This "judgement" you are talking about isnt very shadow at all in the ENFJ's I know, and they see this judgement in me also. But sometimes speaking our mind, wich can so oftenly change (because Fe as a dominant and secondary function makes ones judgement swift back and forth often), would probably bring terror and is just truth at THAT moment. Appreciate more, instead of bashing on it. Take ESFJ's for example, they have this judgement throwing around them all day 24/7 that one almost gets exhausted. And they put themselves in so much trouble everyday for speaking their minds. Atleast the ones I've encountered. Although I like them for speaking up, (as I said) it can be exhausting. You wouldn't want that would you? ENFJ's wait instead for something really meaningful to use their intense judgements, like if their child is about to start doing drugs or something. But ofc it can burst up in public if they (and sometimes me) feel pressure.

  4. #14
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
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    It's hard to explain... I don't really know what to say besides the whole "type shadow" thing to explain when people change under stress. I think that may explain this whole "shadow" theory you have going. ENFJ getting cold etc... It is explained by them gaining the most basic qualities of an ISTP and not being able to use them. That meaning being more concerned about things other than people, which is what ENFJs like to be concerned about.
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

    sCueI (primary Inquisition)

  5. #15
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    An ENFJ's dark inner world? Is that the point of the OP? We do have strangely dark natures, but we're not using it compensate for anything. We're just a bit morbid.

    I find having an ISTP as my shadow doesn't work out very well - my ENFJ nature is making a hypothetical grab for power while the ISTP is saying, "Ooooo, try it THIS way...." lol BAD SHADOW!! BAD!
    eNFJ 4w3 sx/so 468 tritype
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    AIS Holland code
    Researcher: VDI-P
    Dramatic>Sensitive>Serious

  6. #16
    Senior Member chris1207's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    We can broaden the topic to ESFJs, y'know...

    Or to INTJs... what is this damn Se and why does it always fill me with dread?
    What's the fear of Se all about? How do you find that it manifests itself in you? Is it a fear of being dumb and uninciteful? Do you think, "OMG I could be one of those dumb people that watches reality shows, like Americas Next Top Model and enjoys it, if I don't finish The Brother Karamisov tonight!" Or does it relate to a fear that your ultimate plans for creating a better, more perfect world might be held back by mundane details? I'm curious though it may be a topic for uhh... another topic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post

    This shadow thing...

    I'm gonna go ahead and be clinical for a moment, and it's going to sound like dissecting frogs, and for that I ask forgiveness, but...

    normally when I happen across a person who pays attention to the people around them, and does, without difficulty, mingle immediately and easily if s/he decides it's time to, who announces positive messages, and who seems--anxious?--then I call ENFJ. Inordinately anxious. Anxious in a way that's out of step with his or her positive messages.

    I believe perhaps that I am aware of that--is it anxiety?--being calmed,--soothed perhaps?--, when smooth, satisfactory, I guess harmonious interaction, or maybe just environment, prevails.

    Or something.

    This isn't natural. It isn't accident. There's an engine that drives this. For no really good reason I have an image of it as big and powerful and hidden and looming.

    Some experience suggests it is not at all a gentle tiger.


    And all of that is merely as seen through my microscope. And since people aren't the mannequins I so easily view them as...

    I think maybe the ENFJ shadow--and by that I mean the dark side, inside--is judgment.
    I gotta say that I don't really understand what 100% of the objections to this thread are all about. I understand you Kalach. It is kind of like ENFJ's are bad spies, who have various visible tells that they're up to no good, and you're trying to figure out which government they work for.

    I think we just fear what could happen if we don't respect everyone and be nice and all. We don't trust our instincts and our ability to be spontaneous (which is a sign of many mentally unhealthy people according to Dr. Phil.) For example, what would happen if I told my ESTP coworker what a womanizing, Charlie Sheen jackass I thought he was? I get a ride from this guy all the time. I'd be walking my friends and that would not be very pleasant because it's winter and thus cold. As a result I don't do it because it's not in my best interest yet I do sacrifice a little integrity by not speaking my mind. Maybe I'm talking in circles but hopefully there's a nugget or two in there for ya!
    "... you think deeply about stuff [that] nobody cares about and hardly anybody can understand you." ~ Peguy talking about Ni users. So true.

  7. #17
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris1207 View Post
    It is kind of like ENFJ's are bad spies, who have various visible tells that they're up to no good, and you're trying to figure out which government they work for.
    Signature worthy.

    For example, what would happen if I told my ESTP coworker what a womanizing, Charlie Sheen jackass I thought he was? I get a ride from this guy all the time.
    LOL
    eNFJ 4w3 sx/so 468 tritype
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    Dramatic>Sensitive>Serious

  8. #18
    *ears perk up* wolfmaiden14's Avatar
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    I got lost somewhere. I still don't understand the question, but I really want to know the answer!

    Uhm, as far as I CAN understand it.. perhaps the anxiety is a sort of empathy? They put themselves in the middle of the action, so to speak, because they feel some smoothness is NOT taking place, and therefore attempt to soothe such distress(which they are currently expressing) in typical ENFJ fashion.

    In other words, it may just be as simple as ENFJs wanting things to run smoothly, and therefore getting stressed out if he or she feels they're not. So they try to fix it, even amongst their perceived discomfort. The shadow is not judgement, but the ambiguity of P. They'd have trouble allowing a situation to run with some of the flexibility and kinks and movement and (somewhat) conflict; having looming fears since they're so aware of the consequences unpredicted outcomes could bring.
    Forming characters! Whose? Our own or others? Both. And in that momentous fact lies the peril and responsibility of our existence. - Elihu Burritt

    Member of the Maverick's Biker Club - Now crashing through walls instead of just..walking into them.

  9. #19
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris1207 View Post
    For example, what would happen if I told my ESTP coworker what a womanizing, Charlie Sheen jackass I thought he was? I get a ride from this guy all the time. I'd be walking my friends and that would not be very pleasant because it's winter and thus cold. As a result I don't do it because it's not in my best interest yet I do sacrifice a little integrity by not speaking my mind. Maybe I'm talking in circles but hopefully there's a nugget or two in there for ya!
    I don't think that's sacrificing integrity at all, it's being socially pragmatic which for some reason people here snub there noses at. I guess being financially pragmatic is OK, but if you know what side your bread is buttered on with other people you should still eat it after dropping it on the floor. All that hair and crap stuck to it? There's your integrity. Chew with relish!
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
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  10. #20
    Earth Exalted Thursday's Avatar
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    Default The brightest light casts the deepest shadow = ENFJ

    funny how the ENFJs concede but don't show their vulnerability
    I know of three ENFJs, two of which i frequently come in contact with
    and although they may relay the info like its dust in the wind
    that same dust is laced with an underlining; dark and impending/palpable sorrow

    they stare off into space - the room gets silent and tense
    you can almost see the images they are, at least feel them
    its like the Ni and Ti axis haunts them, and they respond with the Fe-Se " but don't worry about it, *joke and slap on the shoulder/disappear*
    I N V I C T U S

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