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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by beyondaurora View Post

    Look, I may be off base in my assessments of the functions, but writing my post off as 'irrelevant' as Jack Flak did, and trying to assign my experiences to 'a troubled past' without at least responding to the possibility of these experiences being attributed to the cognitive processes in question as you did, is frustrating as hell.
    Try being a lone voice of reason in the dark sometime.

    The difference remains irrelevant to everyone but the historian, even though they may refuse to believe it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Apollanaut View Post
    But that's not what I was doing! I am very clear on which behaviours fall within which specific type function, according to the descriptions of numerous professionals at the Jungian end of the typology field (and let's not forget that Jung himself was the first to explicitly set out to describe them in a scholarly fashion).

    Even before Jung, observant people had been noticing distinct categories of human behaviour and modes of thinking for thousands of years - sufficient to make informed guesses as to how an individual (or even a society) is likely to behave in a given context. Psychology itself would be impossible without some form of categorisation, however artificial or constrained.

    In the last few years, a number of extremely astute people have given special attention to winnowing out the eight Jungian type functions from the mass of data presented by the average human being. I'm referring to analysts such as John Beebe and especially to the author and type expert Lenore Thomson, whose excellent reference book "Personality Type, An Owner's manual" is still my primary source of reference for the nature of the functions.

    The fact is that many people see this model as an elegant and useful description of human nature; it is not simply a theory or hypothesis, it has actual, practical value in helping people to understand both themselves and others. For this reason, I shall continue to study, comment on and utilise the 8 function model until something even better comes along (any suggestions?)
    Oh, you don't get it, I see. The above analysts have only tread new ground in the wrong direction, by sticking with Jung's nomenclature and distorting the definitions so that they may coincide more closely with actual type function. I, on the other hand, altered the nomenclature, and described what I saw. To insist on using the useless, antiquated model isn't even better than nothing. It results in people gaining confidence of understanding, when they really have none at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by G-Virus View Post
    Troll Much?

    It was a simple question, does this resemble Fe or Fi . . . No one asked for your input in determining if this is important or relevant. You have already discussed your theory on this over 10^3 times in many other posts so this was just a redundancy and needless shitting on a thread that was personal to someone.

    I know you can't help it, but try to limit the trolling just a bit buddy.
    Thanks, I'll be fine without your Fe.

    I posted here only to help, because as should be obvious to you if you open your eyes, knowing whether a specific action was the result of "Fe" or "Fi" does not help people determine their type correctly.

  2. #32
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    I figure this is all part of a balancing system.

    Some posts might be helpful or unhelpful.
    Some, relevant or irrelevant.
    Some might have been helpful if delivered differently, or in a different context; but in the manner or location in which they were offered might have become unhelpful or irrelevant to the expressed need.

    If someone finds a post helpful or relevant, they'll respond to it.
    If not, they'll ignore it.

    Unhelpful and/or irrelevant posts should be ignored rather than engaged.

    (Hmm, bonus question: Wth function am I using now?)

    In that way, the system stabilizes itself...
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I figure this is all part of a balancing system.

    Some posts might be helpful or unhelpful.
    Some, relevant or irrelevant.
    Some might have been helpful if delivered differently, or in a different context; but in the manner or location in which they were offered might have become unhelpful or irrelevant to the expressed need.

    If someone finds a post helpful or relevant, they'll respond to it.
    If not, they'll ignore it.

    Unhelpful and/or irrelevant posts should be ignored rather than engaged.

    (Hmm, bonus question: Wth function am I using now?)

    In that way, the system stabilizes itself...
    That would be Ni/Fe.

    (I say so as if I'm completely confident because no one here can prove me incorrect.)

  4. #34
    Senior Member Snow Turtle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    (Hmm, bonus question: Wth function am I using now?)


    For giggles.

    Three scenarios. I'd say it's Ti with Fe as main motivator. There's the possability that Fe does not even play a factor in it however.

    In more normal speech...

    1)Getting rid of the conflict by presenting truth. - Ti with Fe primary (Alt. Possibility: Fe/Ti may be generated by Fi)
    2)It could just be a desire to point out truth in general generated by Fi, desire to express the self. Fe irrelevant.
    3)A combination of 1) and 2) with focus on 2) but having 1) as an additional bonus so to speak.

    It's impossible to determine the exact motivations from just that post. Ti is definitely being used. Fe/Fi is more ambigious, in how they interact or whether they are being played. Not to mention that Fi and Fe values can often adopt and become very similar.

    Ni/Ne/Se/Si/Te doesn't seem to play a major role in this discussion (even if they are being used.)

  5. #35
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I figure this is all part of a balancing system.

    Some posts might be helpful or unhelpful.
    Some, relevant or irrelevant.
    Some might have been helpful if delivered differently, or in a different context; but in the manner or location in which they were offered might have become unhelpful or irrelevant to the expressed need.

    If someone finds a post helpful or relevant, they'll respond to it.
    If not, they'll ignore it.

    All of above = Ti. Merely describing the existing system

    Unhelpful and/or irrelevant posts should be ignored rather than engaged. Why? Answer question and you see whether it's Te or Fe... My Ni say I should bet on Fe though.

    In that way, the system stabilizes itself...
    My stuff (design & other junk) lives here: http://nnbox.ca

  6. #36
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    I think what Jack is saying is that regardless of whether or not you can correctly assign any function to an action (which he says you can't), that alone is anecdotal in your overall pattern of being and your overall pattern of being = you.

    Profiles are more useful because they take a snapshot of the overall pattern. Just picking and choosing particular instances in your life where you've used Fe over Fi or Ti over Te will wil make you just choose those instances that give back up the answer (type) that you want to be.

    Is that it?

    Having said that, I think what Beyond Aurora and Apollonaut (sp, sorry) is saying is different. They're saying they just want to flesh out and understand the functions themselves and learn how to discern the motivations and thinking behind a function.

    True, functions don't exist in a vaccuum in people (just like you never do something solely because you're a man or just because you're Amish)

    However, function analysis is theoretical and you need to theoretically piece together the parts (functions) to make the whole (profile) and make it applicable. Or work from the macro to the micro and break down human behavior and patterns into interlocking/interchangeable pieces to create a system of predictability/understand...eability (yes that's a word)

    So I don't understand how you could even say you believe in type theory if you don't even believe in the functions?

    I'm confused.

    Again, I don't think what Jack/Noigm is saying and Aurora/Apollonaut are in opposition to one another. I personally find it really useful, even in theory, even for conjecture, and especially when the exercise has been couched that way -- to try to understand the functions. I don't think BeyondAurora is saying, "I think I used Fe therefore I am INFJ" she's just trying to understand her own motivations for thinking and acting within an MBT framework.

    For instance, I have no idea how Ni operates. So if someone were to give me really pedestrian, accessible anecdotes from real life for examples, that would help me understand it a lot. There's a fine line between theory and reality and extrapolation and application but I think as long as people understand that, this kind of questioning can be very useful.
    “If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.” ― Oscar Wilde

    "I'm outtie 5000" ― Romulux

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  7. #37
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    PS - I am total type newbie. It's like an esoteric science to me. I have no idea what type counselors and therapists would think of most of the conversations we have on this forum. So just speaking in laymen's terms, I personally like conversations trying to parse out the differences between functions.
    “If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.” ― Oscar Wilde

    "I'm outtie 5000" ― Romulux

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  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightning View Post
    Which Ti, Jung or everyone else?

  9. #39
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    I only know of one Ti, and it's not socionics.
    My stuff (design & other junk) lives here: http://nnbox.ca

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightning View Post
    I only know of one Ti, and it's not socionics.
    Since Socionics is based more closely on Jung's definitions than Myers-Briggs is, I assume you mean "everybody else," in which case you're closer to being correct--Since "everybody else" doesn't know shins from Shinola.

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