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  1. #11
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by sanveane View Post
    For me it's about picking and choosing when to be vocal about when you think you're right. (I actually don't much care for the concept of being right though.)
    Or maybe you're just over-reliant on your Fe.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apollanaut View Post
    Me too! Maybe it's got something to do with our shared Enneagram typing (Nines are notoriously indecisive). I imagine that the "INFJ sense of rightness" would be a lot stronger in a Type One, for example.
    May I ask how you deal with the indecisiveness? It's major love-hate relationship! haha

  3. #13
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    Eh. It's obnoxious if any type bangs on about being right. I hate to see INFJs talked out of their intuition. The more you use it, the sharper it gets. The more you talk yourself out of it, the more you lose it, that's just been my experience. But I can't help being excited sometimes that it works, because I realize myself that I'm going with my gut in the face of sketchy data.

    Often when the information is incomplete on purpose, i.e., someone is intentionally misrepresenting or there is a big piece of information missing, you learn to tell the difference between the ping that comes from that and a true ping. Your system urges for closure and it starts generating pinging just because it wants closure -- but the ping doesn't resonate. You feel the click but nothing opens. You have to learn to be still and wait. That's the trick of it.

    In personal decisions I don't always find it necessary to have data to back me up. The confirmation comes after the decision not before.

  4. #14
    violaine
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Or maybe you're just over-reliant on your Fe.
    Idk if those cognitive function tests have any weight but my Fe is um, modest, lol. I have just been a little blinded by my own intuition before. Hence I have worked to not let my intuitions run my mouth so to speak.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    Eh. It's obnoxious if any type bangs on about being right. I hate to see INFJs talked out of their intuition. The more you use it, the sharper it gets. The more you talk yourself out of it, the more you lose it, that's just been my experience. But I can't help being excited sometimes that it works, because I realize myself that I'm going with my gut in the face of sketchy data.

    Often when the information is incomplete on purpose, i.e., someone is intentionally misrepresenting or there is a big piece of information missing, you learn to tell the difference between the ping that comes from that and a true ping. Your system urges for closure and it starts generating pinging just because it wants closure -- but the ping doesn't resonate. You feel the click but nothing opens. You have to learn to be still and wait. That's the trick of it.

    In personal decisions I don't always find it necessary to have data to back me up. The confirmation comes after the decision not before.
    Oh, I'm not trying to talk anyone out of using their intuitions. I rely on mine. I'm not able to be any other way, it guides me and it's how I pick a path through the world. Apologies if it came across that way. I'm just inclined to keep it to myself unless asked or it is necessary for me to say something. I pick and choose those occasions.

  5. #15
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchAngel View Post
    ...
    But ... here are the problems. First, "intuition" is the capacity to leap to an accurate conclusion based on fragmented, incomplete data. If the data itself is inaccurate, our "rightness" is likely to be off, no matter how powerful our intuition. And we have no mechanism for parsing this: we "feel" just as "right" when our original information is bad as we do when it is good.
    As a cognitive process iNtuition is only as good as the information it is based on.

    I find iNtuition is more than just the traditional understanding of the word associated with "women's intuition" and such. In an S vs. N type of analysis, iNtuition has more to do with abstract reasoning. It has to do with holding the big picture inside your head and examining all sorts of internal connections. Because it is not linear or concrete by definition, the process by which it arrives at conclusions can appear mysterious, but it isn't. In order to create and hold a big picture in your head, you need a great deal of information. When using iNtuition, it is difficult to get anything right until you have reached a critical mass of information that can generate that big picture Even if it isn't complete it can extrapolate from it does possess in a way similar to understanding a picture that has pieces missing. It is humbling to be confronted with this initial task of information gathering. Without it, the iNtuition is not worth much, but once there is enough to extrapolate from, then it can be an extremely efficient way of thinking.

    Just "knowing" you are right or having your "intuition tell you something" doesn't result in insight. While it might be difficult for the iNtuitive to explain their process on the spot in a linear, concrete manner, given time they can certainly explain aspects of it from various angles. It is a kind of three dimensional processing, global thinking that can integrate conscious and unconscious awareness perhaps more than some of the other cognitive processing styles. In order to find insight and not just make assumptions and then look for proof of it, you have to be patient, and continually readjust your big picture as you gather more data. A person will have inaccurate conclusions using iNtuition if they care more about being "right" than about understanding the big picture for what it actually is. In some ways I have wondered if the person who really understands non-linear, big picture, interconnected thinking is going to apply an appropriate degree of uncertainty to their conclusions based on how it fits into the larger context.
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  6. #16
    Senior Mugwump Apollanaut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    As a cognitive process iNtuition is only as good as the information it is based on.

    I find iNtuition is more than just the traditional understanding of the word associated with "women's intuition" and such. In an S vs. N type of analysis, iNtuition has more to do with abstract reasoning. It has to do with holding the big picture inside your head and examining all sorts of internal connections. Because it is not linear or concrete by definition, the process by which it arrives at conclusions can appear mysterious, but it isn't. In order to create and hold a big picture in your head, you need a great deal of information. When using iNtuition, it is difficult to get anything right until you have reached a critical mass of information that can generate that big picture Even if it isn't complete it can extrapolate from it does possess in a way similar to understanding a picture that has pieces missing. It is humbling to be confronted with this initial task of information gathering. Without it, the iNtuition is not worth much, but once there is enough to extrapolate from, then it can be an extremely efficient way of thinking.

    Just "knowing" you are right or having your "intuition tell you something" doesn't result in insight. While it might be difficult for the iNtuitive to explain their process on the spot in a linear, concrete manner, given time they can certainly explain aspects of it from various angles. It is a kind of three dimensional processing, global thinking that can integrate conscious and unconscious awareness perhaps more than some of the other cognitive processing styles. In order to find insight and not just make assumptions and then look for proof of it, you have to be patient, and continually readjust your big picture as you gather more data. A person will have inaccurate conclusions using iNtuition if they care more about being "right" than about understanding the big picture for what it actually is. In some ways I have wondered if the person who really understands non-linear, big picture, interconnected thinking is going to apply an appropriate degree of uncertainty to their conclusions based on how it fits into the larger context.
    An excellent, insightful description. May I ask what type you consider yourself to be?
    INFJ 9w1 sx/sp/so

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  7. #17
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sanveane
    For me it's about picking and choosing when to be vocal about when you think you're right. I actually don't much care for the concept of being right at the expense of most everything else though.
    Yes, there are definitely other things to keep in mind, and 'being right' isn't usually of prime importance to me. Or rather...vocalizing that I think I'm right isn't important.

    Another thing though - I tend not to even view things as right or wrong - in general. Mostly because a while ago I realized that just because I think I'm right about X or Y, doesn't necessarily mean squat, because *everyone* to some degree thinks they're right about whatever they think they're right about. Thinking you're right means little. A lot of people think they're right. So I'm therefore always revisiting what I think about a matter. It's possibly also why on many big subjects, I tend to not have a strong opinion on the matter. I need a helluva lot of data before I feel I'm even in a position to make a good, accurate call on something. My conclusion might ultimately be the same as what it had been before I even gathered much data, but I can't say I act on intuition alone - in the layman's sense of the word. On a personal level, I want as much information as possible because I want to have substantial backing for why I'm doing what I'm doing, or thinking or feeling what I'm thinking or feeling. ;-)

    Quote Originally Posted by sanveane View Post
    Oh, I'm not trying to talk anyone out of using their intuitions. I rely on mine. I'm not able to be any other way, it guides me and it's how I pick a path through the world.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred
    I hate to see INFJs talked out of their intuition. The more you use it, the sharper it gets.
    This, as well as some of the more voodoo descriptions of Ni and INFJ profiles, is something I can't entirely relate to. I mean, yeah, I think I use intuition in the general sense of the word, and I get hunches, and vibes, etc, but I don't find it mystical or anything. I also never really make decisions on an entirely intuitive basis (at least, I don't think that I do). Sometimes when it comes to decisions, I'll ultimately take a 'leap of faith', because I think things will ultimately work out and it's the way to go -- but there are many other things that have to come into play before I'm willing to make that call. Other factors to assess. I feel a strong need to have reasons for why I do things or think things. I relate a lot to this --

    Quote Originally Posted by toonia
    iNtuition has more to do with abstract reasoning. It has to do with holding the big picture inside your head and examining all sorts of internal connections. Because it is not linear or concrete by definition, the process by which it arrives at conclusions can appear mysterious, but it isn't. In order to create and hold a big picture in your head, you need a great deal of information. When using iNtuition, it is difficult to get anything right until you have reached a critical mass of information that can generate that big picture Even if it isn't complete it can extrapolate from it does possess in a way similar to understanding a picture that has pieces missing. It is humbling to be confronted with this initial task of information gathering. Without it, the iNtuition is not worth much, but once there is enough to extrapolate from, then it can be an extremely efficient way of thinking.
    .................
    It is a kind of three dimensional processing, global thinking that can integrate conscious and unconscious awareness perhaps more than some of the other cognitive processing styles. In order to find insight and not just make assumptions and then look for proof of it, you have to be patient, and continually readjust your big picture as you gather more data.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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  8. #18
    Badoom~ Skyward's Avatar
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    I don't think I can contribute to what is said (Mainly for doubting my own type, and lack of life experience), but I do agree with Cascademn that I really don't use intuition as if it were scrying. Its usually a lot of weird hunches/vibes, and being mentally parallel with the people around me (Thinking of the same thing at about the same time someone else does, nearly consistently).

    I'm still learning to step back from what I'm doing and look at the big picture to see where the Ni got its idea.

    Not to mention ignoring Fe in social situations...
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  9. #19
    ByMySword
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    I often times distrust my intuition only to find out later that it was dead on. It seems this happens more often than not.

    But I'm such a perfectionist, that I've somewhat adopted what I have always percieved as an INTJ strategy of gathering all the concrete data one can in order to support my intuition. INTJs tend to do this with knowledge in general, it seems. I just use the same strategy with my intuition.

    I just can't afford to be wrong.

  10. #20
    Senior Member IrishStallion819's Avatar
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    I've learned to trust my intuition and my sense of "rightness". For a long time I didn't because I was like "How do I know this stuff, without reading it out of a textbook or playing with a chemistry set". SO, therefore I would always just shutup and let someone else do the talking. But when so many people hear you finally speak up about a moral issue and they say "Your so right, I never thought of it like that".. You get to the point where you realize where society is going and your like "Screw it, atleast i have good intentions, I'll trust me for once". As one of my best friends (50 something year old vietnam vet) once said to me "Speak up son, You have a good heart and what you have to say is important".. Plus, no wonder I have such a hard time in this world some times because people want to do wha they "Think" or what is "conviently right"; rather than what is truly right..
    "People often Find out the truth, when its too late!!!"

    Introverted (I) 78.79% Intuitive (N) 61.54% Feeling (F) 65.85% Judging (J) 60.53%

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