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  1. #41
    Senior Member Wild horses's Avatar
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    On the issue of control... the INTJs I know are not controlling... they do however, like to involved and feel a part of your life and as tiny said they really like to add their input to your plans etc. SOme ENFPs may find that controlling because they may assume that the reality check is just an attempt to stop us doing something... it usually is just the INTJ being helpful I find!
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  2. #42
    Senior Member Maabus1999's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wild horses View Post
    On the issue of control... the INTJs I know are not controlling... they do however, like to involved and feel a part of your life and as tiny said they really like to add their input to your plans etc. SOme ENFPs may find that controlling because they may assume that the reality check is just an attempt to stop us doing something... it usually is just the INTJ being helpful I find!
    Bingo and as I said somewhat similarly in another thread, maturity stages between the two types is what ends up having either horns locking or being complimentary to each other.

  3. #43
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    I agree ^_^ INTJs ftw.
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  4. #44
    Was E.laur Laurie's Avatar
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  5. #45
    Senior Member FantailedWall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hendo Barbarosa View Post
    and just reading this sentence made me think happy thoughts.

    I also realized something important too about the whole "control" thing: I tend to only do it in a situation that I feel is too "chaotic" or where I don't have enough understanding of all the variables. In those times, I need to exert my controlling ideas on someone and be able to see the reaction of that control to feel better about my own standing in a situation. Since I often feel like I need to do this, I prefer to do it with people that I know well and care about, and therefore can trust that they know what's going down. Thus it tends to be NFP friends that bear the burden of I suppose what I would call "backseat living" where I just want to check up on their lives (read: Plans) so that I know that they have THEIR shit together, because in this particular situation I don't have mine together, against my will.

    In any case, FantailedWall, it could totally be that case with your dad, and in that regard it probably is less "I JUST WANT TO DOTE" than you think. He might be controlling for the sake of his own emotional stability/comfort!
    Hmmm. I think you're half-right.
    By which I mean I know he does it because he worries about me - sees the potential and freaks out that the free-spiritedness and flakiness of my nature is going to get in the way of my achieving, and thus (in his mind) my overall happiness.
    I think a biiiig contributing factor to this mindset was his upbringing. See, my dad was raised in Europe on the run in World War 2 - as a Polish-Jew (the race, not the religion) and even post-that, his life was never what you could call easy. He had to learn to rely on himself from a young age and basically got by via his intellect, seeing school/university/achievement as his way to prove/improve himself/his life and such. He basically had to work his way up from nothing, and it's gotten him the full life he now has.

    So, I've come to realize this as the main equation to what he attributes to happiness - intellect + knowledge + achievement = well rounded, stable, gainful life.

    It's hard for me to explain how different I am and that (whilst I love learning, and do well at uni) my career achievements are not the be-all and end-all of my happiness - this is where the attempt to control on his behalf comes in, I think.
    Thing is, we've never actually openly discussed this in these terms - we often argue because I try to explain this to him (that I understand why he is how he is but I'm not like that) but he's taking it all as excuses for...oh, various things - 'laziness/no will to succeed/putting socializing first' etc, etc.

    Phew.
    So, INTJ's - tell me this - are you all as stubborn/set in your ways/hard to get through to as my father - or was I right in attributing a large part of his attitude to his upbringing?

  6. #46
    Senior Member Tiny Army's Avatar
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    Ooooh, FantailedWall, my dad is an ENTJ and he is far worse when it comes to NTJ scheming than any INTJ I know.

    Obviously not being an INTJ I can't know for sure, but I reckon that INTJs only become stubborn and hard to get through to when they think that they know better from the very beginning (as your dad must feel all the time what with being your dad) . Both INTJs I know only really try to control my life or my ideas when they are just so sure that theirs is better. Do correct me if I'm wrong, INTJs!

    I would really like to know why it is INTJs behave like that and what is the best way to communicate with them when the do?

  7. #47
    No Cigar Litvyak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FantailedWall View Post
    So, INTJ's - tell me this - are you all as stubborn/set in your ways/hard to get through to as my father - or was I right in attributing a large part of his attitude to his upbringing?
    I don't know many INTJ's, but I personally tend to be extremely stubborn - though I'm trying really hard to be open for new ideas, even if others don't even notice it. I simply realised I'm not perfect in every territory, and though I know a lot, it's practical to consider an intelligent, thoroughly thought-out advice more useful in some situations. If I can learn from the whole process, that's great - next time, I'll do it myself.

  8. #48
    Retired Member Wonkavision's Avatar
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    I love INTJs.

    Their sarcasm rules.

    Their total fucking disregard for authority, rules, and procedures at work is hilarious.

    Then you mix that with the fact that they are way more efficient than everyone else in the office, so that the boss is willing to tolerate their extreme weirdness----

    Man----I have to say, I sometimes wish I were an INTJ---they are seriously the most original, badass people around.

    Of course, they hurt my feelings sometimes and don't often give me the feedback I crave----

    Like, if I ask an INTJ a question about something work-related, I make DAMN sure present it CLEARLY and LOGICALLY, without a HINT of "Fi" in it----

    Sometimes they are intimidating, but of all the types, it seems they are most willing to accept me as an individual and respect my autonomy.

    That's HUGE in my book.

    I only wish I could tell whether they like me or hate me.

    It seems like a little of both.

    Anyway----Rock on, you crazy, awesome INTJs ---You are my heroes!
    Likes Rambling, grey_beard liked this post

  9. #49
    Member ScareBear's Avatar
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    I have both INTJ parents. My dad can be a bit more argumentative and my mom has that quick wit. I love them both to death but for an ENFP that needs that deep connection and warm fuzzies it just isn't there. I also have a friend that's an INTJ and she is a delight. She has her moments of warm fuzzies but still the deep connection is lacking. Like it's ok to hang out, talk, and come up with crazy ideas but they're just out of arm's length, very distant when I need them most.
    “We keep moving forward, opening new doors, and doing new things, because we’re curious and curiosity keeps leading us down new paths.” -Walt Disney

  10. #50
    Senior Member ceecee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareBear View Post
    I have both INTJ parents. My dad can be a bit more argumentative and my mom has that quick wit. I love them both to death but for an ENFP that needs that deep connection and warm fuzzies it just isn't there. I also have a friend that's an INTJ and she is a delight. She has her moments of warm fuzzies but still the deep connection is lacking. Like it's ok to hang out, talk, and come up with crazy ideas but they're just out of arm's length, very distant when I need them most.
    Do you ever tell them you need them? Seriously, it's not easy for us to "see" that, though it looks obvious to an ENFP. Plus you guys worry about a lot of shit that does not matter. I say that in the best way possible and I say it to my to ENFP friends.
    I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.
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