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  1. #31
    Senior Member Erudur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hendo Barbarosa View Post
    and just reading this sentence made me think happy thoughts.

    I also realized something important too about the whole "control" thing: I tend to only do it in a situation that I feel is too "chaotic" or where I don't have enough understanding of all the variables. In those times, I need to exert my controlling ideas on someone and be able to see the reaction of that control to feel better about my own standing in a situation. Since I often feel like I need to do this, I prefer to do it with people that I know well and care about, and therefore can trust that they know what's going down. Thus it tends to be NFP friends that bear the burden of I suppose what I would call "backseat living" where I just want to check up on their lives (read: Plans) so that I know that they have THEIR shit together, because in this particular situation I don't have mine together, against my will.

    In any case, FantailedWall, it could totally be that case with your dad, and in that regard it probably is less "I JUST WANT TO DOTE" than you think. He might be controlling for the sake of his own emotional stability/comfort!
    I may try to control surroundings or circumstances -- but I have no interest in controlling people. I am more likely to withdraw from the person or the situation. I think I have too much aversion to being controlled to ever try to control another person.

    That may be one of my own unique special connections with the ENFP -- I don't fear they will pen me in.

  2. #32
    Senior Member Hendo Barbarosa's Avatar
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    Well what do you define as controlling a person?

    For me, asking a person what their plans are is defined as controlling them, even in a subtle way. Sometimes I just don't trust people enough to not do that, even if internally, but what I meant was that with close friends it tends to be more external. It's never not gracious though.

  3. #33
    Senior Member Erudur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hendo Barbarosa View Post
    For me, asking a person what their plans are is defined as controlling them, ...
    That doesn't seem like control to me. I read control more as manipulating people to benefit myself--either subtly (emotions) or overtly (using position or power to force someone to do something).

  4. #34
    Senior Member Hendo Barbarosa's Avatar
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    yeah but if you ask someone "what are your plans" you are trying to discern information to make your life and your co-existence more comfortable...but if you're an INTJ, you're doing that with the primary motivation of self-comfort, or self-security (imo). So it's not like a puppet-master thing, but people still RESPOND to it like it is. That's probably why I've (in a potentially erroneous way?) labeled it as such. It's effectively control of self, with others involved.

  5. #35
    Senior Member Erudur's Avatar
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    I'll let the ENFPs chime in, but I am guessing what you meant by control would not be at all threatening to an ENFP.

  6. #36
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hendo Barbarosa View Post
    yeah but if you ask someone "what are your plans" you are trying to discern information to make your life and your co-existence more comfortable...but if you're an INTJ, you're doing that with the primary motivation of self-comfort, or self-security (imo). So it's not like a puppet-master thing, but people still RESPOND to it like it is. That's probably why I've (in a potentially erroneous way?) labeled it as such. It's effectively control of self, with others involved.
    Or it's just that by INTJ nature you're a real world planner--entailment planners, is what we get called somewhere in some type description--bottle cap tighteners--and, literally, that is what we have to offer.

    It can go overboard and become a controlling interest... but exerting control is really tiring, and like Eruder said, it goes against the grain to know your keeping someone you care for under your thumb.

    Not that it won't happen sometimes.

    But I'm pretty sure INTJ types will notice a conflict inside themselves if they're finding themselves aiming at controlling others, and not just controlling project planning.

    For one thing, it's kinda boring if you know exactly what someone's going to do next, especially if somehow you've made them do it.

  7. #37
    Senior Member Maabus1999's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LunaIndigo View Post
    I've never had any problems with INTJ's. At least the ones on this forum. I don't know if I know any in real life or not.
    Beware the INTJ's in NC. They all are 3 feet tall, drool, and have green skin!

  8. #38
    Senior Member Maabus1999's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    Or it's just that by INTJ nature you're a real world planner--entailment planners, is what we get called somewhere in some type description--bottle cap tighteners--and, literally, that is what we have to offer.

    It can go overboard and become a controlling interest... but exerting control is really tiring, and like Eruder said, it goes against the grain to know your keeping someone you care for under your thumb.

    Not that it won't happen sometimes.

    But I'm pretty sure INTJ types will notice a conflict inside themselves if they're finding themselves aiming at controlling others, and not just controlling project planning.

    For one thing, it's kinda boring if you know exactly what someone's going to do next, especially if somehow you've made them do it.
    On a social level, yes I don't like manipulation or control. I hate the "game" people play on top of that, and usually just ignore it completely if I sense it (ironically this causes strange things to happen).

    On a business level I would find it 100% interesting and worth pursuing if I could predict people's actions on a macro level. Plus influencing things from behind the scenes can be gratifying as you can see the results without getting to much of the spotlight which is tiring for me, and I'm sure other INTJ's who have been in similar situations.

  9. #39
    Senior Member Hendo Barbarosa's Avatar
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    honestly, it's all just for peace of mastermind

  10. #40
    Senior Member Tiny Army's Avatar
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    I know only two INTJs (my older brother and Hendo). I get along awesomely with both of them. I do think they tend to be bubble bursters. Whenever I am excited about my most recent ENFP crusade, they always appear and say "Oh yeah, well how're you going to do that?" and then blast you with their logic ray. I'm a super sensitive ENFP, too so my parade feels rained on. But I've come to realise that my INTJs are visionaries, too in their own right. They love the process of new ideas, and need to be involved in its development. When meddling in your personal life, it is their way of feeling involved and also a way for them to exercise their Ni and Te by "solving" your life or your idea. Usually if I let them go on for a bit, they can add a valuable perspective to the situation and often help me follow through on my kind of half assed plans.

    Though, this must be much easier to deal with in a writer/artist team situation than in a daughter/father relationship, huh FantailedWall?

    I'm really glad a bunch of INTJs posted! I love hearing the other side's perspective on things.

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