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View Poll Results: is money (& money-success) often a secondary thing for you NFs?

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  • yes!

    39 62.90%
  • well, not really..i do still think a lot about money.

    21 33.87%
  • heck no! money (& money-success) is most primary thing for me!

    2 3.23%
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  1. #31
    Senior Member placebo's Avatar
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    I can't really put myself in the position to say, because I've never been in a siutation in which I've never had ANY money at all. I mean, I think I would generally like to refer back to Maslow's heirarchy of needs. First comes food & shelter, which really, requires money. That's not to say though that I couldn't be happy without money, but I just assume it'd be really really difficult, at least, being who I am now. This must be going back to the really basics, but generally, a certain amount of money probably comes first, but then at a certain point, money really doesn't matter, doesn't make so much of a difference, as much as 'happiness', or whatever it is you truly want to do in life.

  2. #32
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    I think people are regarding this question using a capitalist filter.

    Survival isn't really dependent on money. That's what "The Man" wants you to think. I'm no commie (hate me you little buggers ) but those are the facts.

  3. #33
    Senior Member placebo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    I think people are regarding this question using a capitalist filter.

    Survival isn't really dependent on money. That's what "The Man" wants you to think. I'm no commie (hate me you little buggers ) but those are the facts.
    But we live within capitalist nations, so why wouldn't it make sense to look at it like that? Of course we probably could survive without money, but I can't imagine it being all that easy if you're starving and wandering the streets, cold and dirty, because you're basically penniless.

    I suppose we could look at people living in some African countries where they live on a dollar a day, and of course you could find true happiness there, where money and material things can't really be thought about because they're just trying to survive day by day, but we can't think in that perspective because we don't live in that perspective. The question, 'is money primary to you' would probably be irrelevant.

    What I'm really sensing here is that the OP is implying that money/success and happiness are almost exclusive to each other. Money and happiness aren't related. You can have lots of money and be happy. You can not have lots of money and be happy. You can have lots of money and be sad. You can not have lots of money and be sad.

    I mean this is kiiiinda not making sense to me.

    If it's just about surviving, chase whatever you think you need to survive. If you think it's money, go for money. If you think it's 'happiness', go for whatever you think will make you happy.

  4. #34
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by placebo View Post
    But we live within capitalist nations, so why wouldn't it make sense to look at it like that?

    Because there's more to life than "society". Some people go the "hermit in the woods" way. Some people are almost exclusively dependent on agriculture.

    Anyway, the question was if money is really secondary, not unnecessary.

  5. #35
    Senior Member placebo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    Because there's more to life than "society". Some people go the "hermit in the woods" way. Some people are almost exclusively dependent on agriculture.

    Anyway, the question was if money is really secondary, not unnecessary.

    I didn't really think of equating money with society exactly. But I think I see your point. But really now, that doesn't even matter in my head anymore because I like your last point even better.

    I think I would now say, no, money isn't primary--survival is. What ever survival equals, leads to what is secondary--probably happiness. But I think a necessitation for happiness, might require some money--but then I don't truly know, and it gets a bit complicated for me to work out.

    Actually, it probably wouldn't even be happiness. It'd be something painfully NF, like 'meaning in life'.

  6. #36
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by placebo View Post
    I didn't really think of equating money with society exactly. But I think I see your point. But really now, that doesn't even matter in my head anymore because I like your last point even better.

    I think I would now say, no, money isn't primary--survival is. What ever survival equals, leads to what is secondary--probably happiness. But I think a necessitation for happiness, might require some money--but then I don't truly know, and it gets a bit complicated for me to work out.

    Actually, it probably wouldn't even be happiness. It'd be something painfully NF, like 'meaning in life'.
    Funny you mentioned happiness as secondary when compared to survival (which makes sense). I was just thinking how in western (i.e. heavily capitalistic) society the suicide phenomenon is a lot more common (this is pure conjecture since I don't really now) than in countries were people have to live with almost no money.

    It's almost as if, with money, comes "happiness > survival" whereas with less money "survival > happiness". I'd say that's a natural cultural evolution.

    Obviously this is very subjective. I can't tell if the hungry families in places like Etiopia (etc) even think of happiness in the same way we do. Probably not.

  7. #37
    Senior Member placebo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    Funny you mentioned happiness as secondary when compared to survival (which makes sense). I was just thinking how in western (i.e. heavily capitalistic) society the suicide phenomenon is a lot more common (this is pure conjecture since I don't really now) than in countries were people have to live with almost no money.

    It's almost as if, with money, comes "happiness > survival" whereas with less money "survival > happiness". I'd say that's a natural cultural evolution.

    Obviously this is very subjective. I can't tell if the hungry families in places like Etiopia (etc) even think of happiness in the same way we do. Probably not.
    Hm... yea, I don't know about world patterns of suicide behaviour and such, but just sitting around where I am and seeing all sorts of people killing themselves and dying and other self-suffering acts because of losing money, or in spite of having money, leads one to wonder about what really comes first.

    Also sitting around here and sort of noticing people going on about chasing 'dreams/happiness' or 'success/wealth' and seeing those sorts of people not necessarily achieving what they set out to achieve, sometimes achieving one or the other, or both, doesn't help me to conclude that you can figure out that one is better than the other. Sometimes you don't even seem to have a choice in what you choose.

    So it just seems you're meant to do what works best for you to do what seems most precious--being alive.

  8. #38
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    Yeah, that word "happy?" I'd toss it out. It's a pretty unrealistic goal considering, hangnails and stuff like that. Heh. It comes in pretty short bursts to be a reasonable life's goal.

    But "living well?" That one I could use. And that means having enough of the material things, psychological things, spiritual things to have satisfaction.
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

  9. #39
    にゃん runvardh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    I like to eat and I like to buy books so I can't say money means nothing to me.
    Exactly, sometimes I wonder if people realize what keeps the internet connected, even.
    Dreams are best served manifest and tangible.

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    I accept no responsibility, what so ever, for the fact that I exist; I do, however, accept full responsibility for what I do while I exist.

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  10. #40
    にゃん runvardh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anja View Post
    Yeah, that word "happy?" I'd toss it out. It's a pretty unrealistic goal considering, hangnails and stuff like that. Heh. It comes in pretty short bursts to be a reasonable life's goal.

    But "living well?" That one I could use. And that means having enough of the material things, psychological things, spiritual things to have satisfaction.
    See, this is why the more experienced have a place and a role in society.

    +1
    Dreams are best served manifest and tangible.

    INFP, 6w7, IEI

    I accept no responsibility, what so ever, for the fact that I exist; I do, however, accept full responsibility for what I do while I exist.

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