[MBTI General] Idealist Thoughts on INTP Romance

[chatoyer]

Yeah, hehe, it need not make any sense! Its just a matter of feel! Lets relish in unpredictability! Today, I adore you, tomorrow you are the anti-christ. Hehe, this is subtlety my friend! Who could possibly be hurt by such a seemingly innocent and a precious thing! Hehhe! We're idealists aint we!? Why be so reactive, hehehehe, what do you want from me, I have a feel and that is it! So just trust the feel and be quite, dont expect me to make any sense! Relish in the subtlety, relish in the flights of imagination! As Neo from the Matrix said "In this world anything is possible" or as many propagandists of motivational speaking asserted "If you can imagine it you can do it!" So whats wrong, just trust the feel!

Dont you bother thinking about what the situation really is like (communicating directly isnt ideal remember, to hell with not ideal, its completely useless), just relish in your imagination and the unpreictability of romantic nuance!

Anything could be! Forget about letting the other person know what you are all about or what the relationship is like, we are idealistic romantic-dreamers! Its anything that we want! Anything that we feel like doing! And dont you dare force us into the straight answer! Dont you dare spoil our precious mood with your insipid exhortations for directness and making sense of things! Dont you dare threaten the sacred volatility of feelings, this moment I feel this way the next moment I will feel another way, thats the unpredictability of romance you should relish in!

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Summary: This whole appeal to romantic unpredictability and nuance of feeling is just an attempt by Fs to deny responsibility for their actions. Or quite simply they refuse to communicate directly because they simply wish to do whatever they feel like doing. Only communicating directly will make their position clear. Only if their position is clear could they be held accountable for it. If its not clear, there is nothing that is stopping them from acting like children or simply using Feeling excessively, or in other words in that case there is nothing stopping them from acting on whim, appeasing every last vulgar impulse of theirs.

93JC is absolutely right, direct and reasonable communication should be absolutely vouched for. That is the case because it is an ethical truism that people should accept responsibility for their actions, there is no reason at all why Fs should be exampt from such an obligation.

What a great demonstration of Fe (that whole post)! Thanks, Solitary Walker........

So, you think Ti dominance leads to inflexibility and autocratic behavior in relationships? To compromise or try to suit the other person is a loss of integrity and autonomy?

Clear communication is important, it transcends type. But are you defending the INTP habit that can be interpreted as withdrawal or avoidance as clear, direct communication? Is no communication direct or could it be interpreted a myriad of ways by the other partner?

I guess the INTPs I know IRL are aberrant, and have learned to negotiate their relationships somehow, I'm sure you would disapprove, that they have lost integrity and their autonomy is in the balance.

I even know a family guy INTP who married an ESFJ!! Horrors! How could that ever work????

 

[runvardh]

Which traits, if any, do you find romantically appealing that are found in the INTP.

One of the least likely types to be serious when calling me an asshole.

which traits, if any, do you find romantically unappealing that are found in the INTP?

I'll have to get back to you on this one...

 

[Salomé]

^ Awww! So sweet!

 

[SolitaryWalker]

What a great demonstration of Fe (that whole post)! Thanks, Solitary Walker........

So, you think Ti dominance leads to inflexibility and autocratic behavior in relationships? To compromise or try to suit the other person is a loss of integrity and autonomy?

Clear communication is important, it transcends type. But are you defending the INTP habit that can be interpreted as withdrawal or avoidance as clear, direct communication? Is no communication direct or could it be interpreted a myriad of ways by the other partner?

I guess the INTPs I know IRL are aberrant, and have learned to negotiate their relationships somehow, I'm sure you would disapprove, that they have lost integrity and their autonomy is in the balance.

I even know a family guy INTP who married an ESFJ!! Horrors! How could that ever work????

I am only insisting on the necessity of direct and clear communication that NFs tend to be averse to. Anyone who lacks skill with the Thinking faculties is likely to be averse to clear and direct communication because Thinking is necessary in order for a person to know what they are talking about.



Moreover those who fail to properly use thinking cannot be honest with themselves as they will inevitably be governed by their animalistic passions (Feeling). On that note, they will easily believe whatever they'd like to believe about themselves.

Most importantly of all, in order for one who have personal integrity one must know who one is. To have integrity means to have principles one stands by. In order for one to have such principles one needs to have a clear-cut sense of self. Obviously its not possible for a person to know what their principles are and to properly stand by them if the person does not even know who they are.

In order for one to know who one is, one needs to analyze oneself with intellectual honesty. This requires the use of Thinking for the reasons mentioned above. Generally, NFs tend not to do this, they merely believe whatever they want to believe about themselves.

Hence, they never have integrity, only feel like they do.

But are you defending the INTP habit that can be interpreted as withdrawal or avoidance as clear, direct communication? :

I do not see any relevance.

So, you think Ti dominance leads to inflexibility and autocratic behavior in relationships? To compromise or try to suit the other person is a loss of integrity and autonomy?:

Trying to suit the other person will not lead to a loss of integrity if and only if the wishes of the other person do not conflict with the ethical principles of the protagonist in question. Whoever fails to use thinking will obviously be influenced by emotions to a high degree and our emotions are deeply influenced by the wishes of those who are close to us. For that reason Fs tend to accomodate without question and prostitute themselves as a result.

I guess the INTPs I know IRL are aberrant, and have learned to negotiate their relationships somehow, I'm sure you would disapprove, that they have lost integrity and their autonomy is in the balance.
?:

Yeah, and I am sure there are a few Fs who know who they are and what to do with themselves without the explicit guidance of others.

 

[Wild horses]

HOW does a thread about INTPs become about NFs and NTs?? Maybe we are just destined to be together in the same breath!

 

[Salomé]

HOW does a thread about INTPs become about NFs and NTs?? Maybe we are just destined to be together in the same breath!

Well. It started out with an INTP phishing for compliments from NFs in the NF Idyllic. Then some attention-whoring INTPs came along and hijacked it.

Of course we are destined to be together - who else is goodnatured enough to up with us put?

 

[JocktheMotie]

Well. It started out with an INTP phishing for compliments from NFs in the NF Idyllic. Then some attention-whoring INTPs came along and hijacked it.

Of course we are destined to be together - who else is goodnatured enough to up with us put?

Hmm... I'd say more forgiving.

 

[Simplexity]

Well. It started out with an INTP phishing for compliments from NFs in the NF Idyllic. Then some attention-whoring INTPs came along and hijacked it.

Of course we are destined to be together - who else is goodnatured enough to up with us put?

Is that why my advances always fall flat on my face with you.

Even the ISFP skin wasn't good enough?

 

[eternitybc]

Appealing:
-Most of them are highly intelligent and can have meaningful discussions with us.
-We enjoy bringing them out of their shells, I think. At least ENF's do, I'd guess.
-Their humor is great-- dry and sarcastic.
-They are socially awkward, which is kinda cute.
-They come off meek and gentle, which is also cute.
-They are valuable people to have around when you go to make a decision-- very level-headed and analytical.
-They are P's, which is kind of a personal favorable trait to me, but not necessarily other NF's.

Unappealing:
-They are socially awkward. Cute, but annoying at times too.
-They find our feeling side overbearing and excessive at times.
-They are somewhat aloof.
-They are stubborn.
-They have strange hobbies/likes . I know this sounds weird, but it is true of both INTPs I know. Haha.

Agree with above 100% I suspect my partner of 8 years of being INTP (possibly INTJ, but not very likely).

THe unappealing part of being in a relationship with an INTP is yes, they are aloof. Read- not very cuddly. "I've been hugging you all day!!!!" means "You tried to hug me twice, and I briefly tolerated it before pushing you away!" LOL!

he DOES think I'm a touchy feely goof. And PMS? Wow. He thinks I should be locked up (and I don't even get THAT crazy, just a little insecure!!). but I have to admit, ALL of your pluses are spot on. And maybe it's just my partner, but I find him very honest as well. To the point where I don't want him to be, if that makes sense. No sugar coating.

 

[Salomé]

Is that why my advances always fall flat on my face with you.

Even the ISFP skin wasn't good enough?

No dear. It's because you are a manwhore and I have standards.

 

[Lady_X]

Well. It started out with an INTP phishing for compliments from NFs in the NF Idyllic. Then some attention-whoring INTPs came along and hijacked it.

Of course we are destined to be together - who else is goodnatured enough to up with us put?

awww...ya think? you don't think our f makes us too nutty!!?? yay!!

 

[JocktheMotie]

Agree with above 100% I suspect my partner of 8 years of being INTP (possibly INTJ, but not very likely).

THe unappealing part of being in a relationship with an INTP is yes, they are aloof. Read- not very cuddly. "I've been hugging you all day!!!!" means "You tried to hug me twice, and I briefly tolerated it before pushing you away!" LOL!

he DOES think I'm a touchy feely goof. And PMS? Wow. He thinks I should be locked up (and I don't even get THAT crazy, just a little insecure!!). but I have to admit, ALL of your pluses are spot on. And maybe it's just my partner, but I find him very honest as well. To the point where I don't want him to be, if that makes sense. No sugar coating.

I'm actually extremely touchy feely with my SO. It stems from my inability to express my feelings in any other way. But I'm with him on PMS. I don't know why women even trust their judgement during those times, they admit themselves "It's just hormones!"

 

[93JC]

THe unappealing part of being in a relationship with an INTP is yes, they are aloof. Read- not very cuddly. "I've been hugging you all day!!!!" means "You tried to hug me twice, and I briefly tolerated it before pushing you away!" LOL!

he DOES think I'm a touchy feely goof.

I like hugs. *shrug*

 

[kelric]

Of course we are destined to be together - who else is goodnatured enough to up with us put?

Yoda? (sorry, had to say it )

I think that the whole communication thing is what it really comes down to. Of course, if it were *really* that simple, it wouldn't be an issue at all. What is considerate and straightforward to one person can be either rude and obnoxious or vague, annoying and indecisive to someone else (among other reactions). As long as both people are willing to *work* at communicating with each other and do a bit of give and take, I think things can work out... it's the "you should do things like I want, because I'm right and you're wrong" attitude that shows that things are going in the wrong direction.

 

[Spartacuss]

I'm actually extremely touchy feely with my SO. It stems from my inability to express my feelings in any other way.

+1

 

[bronte]

Most importantly of all, in order for one who have personal integrity one must know who one is. To have integrity means to have principles one stands by. In order for one to have such principles one needs to have a clear-cut sense of self. Obviously its not possible for a person to know what their principles are and to properly stand by them if the person does not even know who they are.

In order for one to know who one is, one needs to analyze oneself with intellectual honesty. This requires the use of Thinking for the reasons mentioned above. Generally, NFs tend not to do this, they merely believe whatever they want to believe about themselves.

For that reason Fs tend to accomodate without question and prostitute themselves as a result.

Surely if we are to 'know who we are' then we need to be in touch with and understand in depth our emotional self as well as our intellectual self. In denying or suppressing our emotions we are acting in a 'dishonest' way.

In addition I dont know an intuitive introvert who does not analyze who they are - I am constantly amazed by your belief that 'feeling' somehow cancels out the ability to think clearly - or that people with feeling tendencies cannot rise above base passions - its amazing in that case that any of us can work!

I do not accomodate without question - that would make me spineless - but I do take into account the feelings of other people in the way that I communicate - it is possible to communicate clearly without being insulting, hurtful, insensitive, opinionated or blunt - and this has nothing to do with prostituting oneself.

 

[Domino]

When I hear "Say what you want from me" from an INTP, I see two possible outcomes, both of which I've been met with.

1. I say it directly and he says "Okay".

2. I say it directly in the same manner as before and he throws a massive fit about being bossed around.

I've heard this "be direct" ploy before. It's meant only part of the time. Brevity, I get. But if he was in a mood, I'm bossing him around. He once told me to "say please" and I almost knocked him down for it.

I'm not babysitting your feelings (because that's what this is - Fe outbursts from the great beyond).

I'm not going to "interpret" those moments where YOU need to step up and read between a few easy lines yourself. If I wanted a robot, I would have stayed in automation. I like that about ENTPs. They take initiative. And frankly, it's a huge turn off to constantly be telling the "other half" what you want all the time.

Example: "Hey. INTP That I'm Dating. I want you to grab me by the waist and talk dirty to me. I want you to include words like 'minx', 'gorgeous', 'brain madness' and 'the winter of our discontent'. I want you to kiss me on the lips first, then my neck. After that, play with my hair and I'll pretend that it was your idea to try to get my shirt off."

Whatever.

Having said that, I'm still in love with my INTP girls, including Jack Flak.

 

[Spartacuss]

If you don't want robots, don't pick the retards. INTP ex didn't have problems with initiative at all. What he did have problems with was concealing dislike for passive aggression.

 

[Domino]

If you don't want robots, don't pick the retards.

*lol* I'll make a note of that.

INTP ex didn't have problems with initiative at all.

Did it perhaps stem from it being an INTP-INTP relationship? The dynamic is no doubt completely different from mine. Or maybe you just got a good one.

What he did have problems with was concealing dislike for passive aggression.

Meaning HE was passive aggressive? Or you were?

 

[Spartacuss]

You're right -- Maybe the dynamic was different. Hadn't thought of that, because we're both blunt people generally.
Interestingly the ex with the least initiative was an NF.

Meaning HE was passive aggressive? Or you were?

He was the least passive aggressive person on the planet. Was I? In comparison to him, maybe. But anyone would be. I loved it. others? not so much.

edit: I'm not so sure I just got a good one - from what I've observed getting a relationship started is the problem. We can be quite silly/intense romantics once we're over that hump... Provided we're not of the complete retard school of INTP.