[INFJ] INFJ: the one that got away?

[Synarch]

I think INJs like to believe that people don't get them or understand them or purposely try to shroud themselves in a mysterious aura so they can then later claim that they weren't understood and absolve themselves of any role they played in the lack of understanding.

I don't know if I want to have sustained contact with a person who is or believes themselves to be complex, because you know, they complicate things. They have a tendency to make things harder than what they have to be. That seems like something that should only be reserved in describing the universe which is requisitely complex. Complex people come with a rather tedious user's manual that needs to be taken to expensive specialty shops when they break. When people describe themselves as complex it's usually a euphemism for troubled and difficult to deal with. Can you be both complex and simple at the same time?

10^1 I can wrap my head around but when you get to 10^100 I just can't do that in my head. It's too big. Are you INFJs saying you're 10^100? You've got so many zero's behind you that you defy understanding? OK I'm confusing myself.

Maybe you confuse your inability to see complexity with the absence of complexity? If someone was actually more complex than you could understand, how would you know?

 

[proteanmix]

Maybe you confuse your inability to see complexity with the absence of complexity? If someone was actually more complex than you could understand, how would you know?

I don't believe the INFJ personality is more complex than say the ESTP personality. That's what I'm finding a little repugnant about this thread. I can understand that some people have more complex psychology than others, but it's not due to being XXXX personality type. Being less common does lead to lack of understanding, but that doesn't necessarily translate to more complex. It just means it hasn't been studied yet. Once you start learning or being exposed to a person's psyche what was once stupefying becomes comprehensible.

I can recognize when I'm over my head when dealing with another person's mind, but being more complex? No, I don't think so. I'm sure I leave some people scratching their heads, but it certainly doesn't mean I'm more complex.

 

[Silent Stars]

We most certainly aren't fooling ourselves when we say things along those lines. But...purposely making ourselves mysterious? Honestly, that whole train of thought in your first paragraph is really immature (of your post that Synarch quoted), and I think it would be the rare exception for any of us to follow it, rather than the rule.

 

[redacted]

Even though I don't really like thinking this way, I'm gonna agree with the OP.

 

[Kestrel]

I don't know if I want to have sustained contact with a person who is or believes themselves to be complex, because you know, they complicate things. They have a tendency to make things harder than what they have to be. That seems like something that should only be reserved in describing the universe which is requisitely complex. Complex people come with a rather tedious user's manual that needs to be taken to expensive specialty shops when they break. When people describe themselves as complex it's usually a euphemism for troubled and difficult to deal with. Can you be both complex and simple at the same time?

This is a paradox I can identify with. I'm complicated on the inside, but not so complicated in my dealings with other people. I don't really expect people to understand me, but I also don't expect people to misunderstand me either. I take things as they come, these days.

I don't like being "dark and mysterious". But I find it insanely difficult to go around sharing things about myself to just anyone; only to people who really want to know.

But there are some people in my life who "get" me. I think some types just have a harder time understanding INFJs than other types. Like my Si dominant dad does understand me to a degree, but some things will always be "lost in translation".

But hey, there seems to be a fair amount of people on this board that do understand INFJs to a surprising degree. So there's always hope.

 

[violaine]

I don't believe the INFJ personality is more complex than say the ESTP personality. That's what I'm finding a little repugnant about this thread. I can understand that some people have more complex psychology than others, but it's not due to being XXXX personality type. Being less common does lead to lack of understanding, but that doesn't necessarily translate to more complex. It just means it hasn't been studied yet. Once you start learning or being exposed to a person's psyche what was once stupefying becomes comprehensible.

I can recognize when I'm over my head when dealing with another person's mind, but being more complex? No, I don't think so. I'm sure I leave some people scratching their heads, but it certainly doesn't mean I'm more complex.

hmmm well I wouldn't have even approached it from 'I am more complex' than others. (Though funny enough, that is often the word people use to describe me. Even my own sister. It's not usually said in the good way.) INFJ are very layered and convoluted in their style of personality and not easily accessible. We know this is also down to us as well as others. Feeling and actually being misunderstood either completely or just by a few shades (both situations being pretty intolerable to INFJ) is a fact of life for INFJ. I think Penelope had tried to get her point across - which was simply that she had noticed a pattern in her relationships and wondered if it happened with other INFJ. And there are all kinds of misunderstandings.... but not from the other INFJ. Immediate recognition from other INFJ. Immediate understanding that it was a subject she wanted to explore without ego entering into it at all.

That kind of recognition is really nice and I guess that is what Penelope was commenting on. Because it's not what happens out in the real world. Perhaps that is down to INFJ being affiliative and fairly cooperative when exploring arguments as a type, esp with other INFJ.... if there were INFJs who really disagreed they may not have posted?

Anyway, apart from everything else, the OP stuff really does happen... I know CC has also mentioned that this has happened with her too. It's been interesting to discuss. (Heading out now, back later.)

 

[cascadeco]

I think INJs like to believe that people don't get them or understand them

I don't know if I want to have sustained contact with a person who is or believes themselves to be complex, because you know, they complicate things. They have a tendency to make things harder than what they have to be. .......... Complex people come with a rather tedious user's manual that needs to be taken to expensive specialty shops when they break. When people describe themselves as complex it's usually a euphemism for troubled and difficult to deal with. Can you be both complex and simple at the same time?

Actually I think there's some truth to this.

Now, my INFJ friends definitely understand me quickly, and I don't really have to do a lot of explaining, but that's just because they speak the same 'language'. However, I also have a TJ friend who 'gets me', an ENFJ I used to know did as well, a couple of ENFP's, INTP's don't seem to have too much of a problem, an ISFJ friend understands me well, and an ENTP friend quite easily and readily understands me, so...it's not solely a type thing.

My perception of myself tends to be tied to my overall mood/place in life. There have been times in my past when I've felt completely alone, misunderstood, 'different' from everyone else, more cynical, completely caught up in an internal analytical loop, and defective -- too 'complex', too X or Y or Z, to be accepted or understood by anyone. But as a direct result of this self-perception, I then *became* more isolated. I believed it was the case, and so that belief impacted how I approached people, relationships, etc. I probably approached others with preconceived notions of how they'd react, and was probably more in defense mode, and also definitely lacked confidence. And, putting the blame on others for not understanding -- well, that's a piece of it, but the other part lies in myself, and my ability to communicate in a way that can be understood by others. So in my case much of it was a self-perpetuating thing. If I thought I would be misunderstood, well, there was a good chance I would be. Or I'd perceive others in that way. Because I looked at the world through that lens.

As to the OP, I don't know. I've never had anyone come back to me or say that. But I like to think they think that. ;-)

 

[proteanmix]

This is a paradox I can identify with. I'm complicated on the inside, but not so complicated in my dealings with other people. I don't really expect people to understand me, but I also don't expect people to misunderstand me either. I take things as they come, these days.

So I ask, who isn't complicated on the inside? This whole forum is teaming with people saying how complicated they are! When you start digging into the subterranean depths of another person your GPS is going to lose satellite reception at some point. Maps will be useless. Maybe it happens faster for some people than others, I understand that.

I don't like being "dark and mysterious". But I find it insanely difficult to go around sharing things about myself to just anyone; only to people who really want to know.

So do I. Well if you mean sharing what my deepest fears, what makes me tick, why I do what I do, then no I don't do that. If you mean, what I'm going to do over the weekend or even what my New Year's Resolutions are then yeah, I'll share that.

But there are some people in my life who "get" me. I think some types just have a harder time understanding INFJs than other types. Like my Si dominant dad does understand me to a degree, but some things will always be "lost in translation".

But hey, there seems to be a fair amount of people on this board that do understand INFJs to a surprising degree. So there's always hope.

I agree with this. What I'm saying is do you get your ISJ dad totally and completely, while he only get's some of you? The idea that I'm resisting in this thread is the one where INFJs have greater than average understanding of the people the get intimate with while the other person is clueless. If the INFJ did have such great understanding wouldn't they have comprehended beforehand the other person's limited in their ability to understand them? If I knew that I would've been more cautious in opening up to them.

 

[redacted]

So I ask, who isn't complicated on the inside? This whole forum is teaming with people saying how complicated they are! When you start digging into the subterranean depths of another person your GPS is going to lose satellite reception at some point. Maps will be useless. Maybe it happens faster for some people than others, I understand that.

Eh, I don't think anyone's really that complicated. People's motivations always boil down to the same emotional primitives.

I think when people say "complicated", they really just mean non-normative.

 

[Lauren Ashley]

Hooray INFJs! I'm so glad you guys are coming around. It really further proves that only INFJs get other INFJs... whew.

Where in there does it say that INFJs believe they are more complex than others? Complexity might not be the issue. It might be something else.

 

[redacted]

Hooray INFJs! I'm so glad you guys are coming around. It really further proves that only INFJs get other INFJs... whew.

I've been "gotten" by 4 ENFPs, 2 INFPs, an ENTP, an INTJ, and 2 ENFJs. (All female, somehow...)

All it takes is a bit of effort and a bit of natural understanding of people -- It's not like different rules apply to me or something.

 

[iwakar]

It really further proves that only INFJs get other INFJs... whew.

I disagree with this statement and the possible intention it belies. Although I am still pleased you made your original post as it has stirred up some long-sought camaraderie on a painful and at-times confusing topic for many INFJs.


However <critics>, it is not unrealistic to assume that most types have a sharper understanding of their own types better than others.

Also, I don't think the OP was addressing relationship (ending) patterns within the INFJ type as a way to prove we're more complicated than other types, unless I... missed... something...? If the discussion has devolved to this point, I think it's more a matter of failed communications on the topic rather than a devious effort to establish INFJ emotional elitism.

I think some of you have simply exceeded your cranky flakes ration for the day given the stresses of the holiday season. Eat some fruitcake instead. Thus, I have spoken!

:makes a grand sweeping gesture:

 

[proteanmix]

I think some of you have simply exceeded your cranky flakes ration for the day given the stresses of the holiday season. Eat some fruitcake instead. Thus, I have spoken!

:makes a grand sweeping gesture:

Cranky flakes are like my favorite non-sugary breakfast cereal in the world! You can't take that away from me!

Naw, seriously I thought I could get this rigorous with INFJs cause that's how we do with each other in real life.

No offense to the INFJs in the thread, you're still my favorites! I just don't like to see fellow NFJs getting in that "poor me, I give and I give and I give" circle of madness. I totally could've brought my brown bag to the party and started dancing on the table of despair. Carry on, I'll go away.

 

[violaine]

Cranky flakes are like my favorite non-sugary breakfast cereal in the world! You can't take that away from me!

Naw, seriously I thought I could get this rigorous with INFJs cause that's how we do with each other in real life.

No offense to the INFJs in the thread, you're still my favorites! I just don't like to see fellow NFJs getting in that "poor me, I give and I give and I give" circle of madness. I totally could've brought my brown bag to the party and started dancing on the table of despair. Carry on, I'll go away.

Yeah, that does suck.

Aww, don't go away though... we're all just talking!

 

[iwakar]

Further thread derail; apologies!

Cranky Crazy flakes are like my favorite non-sugary breakfast cereal in the world! You can't take that away from me!

Naw, seriously I thought I could get this rigorous with INFJs cause that's how we do with each other in real life.

No offense to the INFJs in the thread, you're still my favorites! I just don't like to see fellow NFJs getting in that "poor me, I give and I give and I give" circle of madness. I totally could've brought my brown bag to the party and started dancing on the table of despair. Carry on, I'll go away.

(FIXED)

You're not getting off that easy miss!

Discussions should not be ended just because negative assumptions require extraction or humorous asides need interjection. It's important to reach an understanding with people we like, people we care about, and people we respect --and I see no reason that doesn't apply to this thread. I don't want discussion to end, I want it to improve.

I'll respond to a comment you made in an earlier post that seemed telling. You stated "I think INJs like to believe that people don't get them or understand them or purposely try to shroud themselves in a mysterious aura so they can then later claim that they weren't understood and absolve themselves of any role they played in the lack of understanding." I believe this is true of 1) immature INxJs 2) irresponsible INxJs and 3) lazy INxJs. I do not believe this is true of mature or healthy INxJs. (You've had bad experiences mayhaps?)

Is it fair and possible that you are lumping the sincere frustration that some INxJs experience at times with other types when trying to communicate, with the elitist behavior of less exemplary INxJs? I won't claim that never happens, just that it doesn't always happen and is not something that healthy, mature, responsible INxJs would aspire to emulate.

I can only truly speak for myself, but I know that I have personally gone through great lengths to articulate my convoluted thoughts and feelings with people I love and trust, though it has not always ended how I had hoped. Not finding at least some one that I can trust and clearly communicate with is a social poverty to be avoided, and something that should be achieved no matter how difficult or painful. I think older or mature INxJs recognize the danger of excessive solitude, and like all types slug away at this issue --improving/developing as they grow.

And perhaps "simplicity/complexity" is a loaded qualifying system... maybe "transparency/opacity" is more accurate?

Let the responses be plentiful!

:makes grand sweeping gesture again:

Where'd I misplace mah flashy scepter?!

 

[Gish]

I'm unique too.

 

[sleuthiness]

I'm unique too.

Like I'm logical, yeah!

 

[karenk]

Where in there does it say that INFJs believe they are more complex than others? Complexity might not be the issue. It might be something else.

I think this issue was brought up in response to my post, which said, "Yea, we're complex. lol" Maybe it wasn't and I'm being self-centered. ha. I said it tongue-in-cheek though. However, I did read this online. I'll find it.

Edit: This is from Keirsey's profile:

"People who have known an INFJ for years may find sides emerging which come as a surprise. Not that INFJs are inconsistent; they are very consistent and value integrity. But they have convoluted, complex personalities which sometimes puzzle even them."

That's what I was thinking about when I said it tongue-in-cheek. Who cares though? I think making this an issue is showing some insecurity.

 

[proteanmix]

(FIXED)

You're not getting off that easy miss!

Discussions should not be ended just because negative assumptions require extraction or humorous asides need interjection. It's important to reach an understanding with people we like, people we care about, and people we respect --and I see no reason that doesn't apply to this thread. I don't want discussion to end, I want it to improve.

I'll respond to a comment you made in an earlier post that seemed telling. You stated "I think INJs like to believe that people don't get them or understand them or purposely try to shroud themselves in a mysterious aura so they can then later claim that they weren't understood and absolve themselves of any role they played in the lack of understanding." I believe this is true of 1) immature INxJs 2) irresponsible INxJs and 3) lazy INxJs. I do not believe this is true of mature or healthy INxJs. (You've had bad experiences mayhaps?)

No, most of my experiences are with healthy INJs that do connect with people that want to understand them and vice versa. In fact I have an INTJ friend that chides me about keeping in touch and gift-giving. That's why I wasn't buying this "the one that got away.'

But "immature" is an interesting word that I see bandied about often. Were the people who left the INFJs immature? Maybe so, maybe no. Is it immature to be at different points in life? I wouldn't say that just because a person brands you the one that got away that they were necessarily immature. Maybe them breaking up with you at that point in time was the most mature act they could do. I think that type of statement requires that the two people wanted the same thing at the same time (or professed to want it) but one of them wasn't there yet, if that makes sense. When they finally got to the point they wanted to be, they retrospect and maybe regret.

Is it fair and possible that you are lumping the sincere frustration that some INxJs experience at times with other types when trying to communicate, with the elitist behavior of less exemplary INxJs? I won't claim that never happens, just that it doesn't always happen and is not something that healthy, mature, responsible INxJs would aspire to emulate.

Yes, it is fair and very possible. Now let's get into some numbers: how many of the INFJs that have this problem do you think are healthy, mature, and responsible? IF it's happening to them repeatedly and consistently I'm leaning towards the "un" category.

And perhaps "simplicity/complexity" is a loaded qualifying system... maybe "transparency/opacity" is more accurate?

Yes, that's most definitely the case. You can have a complex system that's transparent and learnable with time. When you obscure the same system it's harder to see the mechanics of how it works and to learn it and all but the most tenacious throw up their hands in frustration. Maybe some people do that purposely so only the most determined get through? Maybe some people like getting jackhammered? I think that needlessly complicates things and leads to isolation and the being poorly understood part. That's what I was getting at with the whole shrouding in mystery part, thanks for explaining it better.

 

[Domino]

Does this mean I can't flick people on the balls? We all know Erin so needs a good ball-flicking. Synarch's boobs are the next stop on the Flickstah Express!

The INFJs can't have the "cranky" label. It's mine. I claimz it 4 France!