User Tag List

First 1234 Last

Results 11 to 20 of 56

Thread: NFJ's superior?

  1. #11
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    isfp
    Enneagram
    4w5 sp/sx
    Posts
    8,595

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    If we are talking purely the "stereotypical" leader type, though, as what Toonia is describing in her post, the "best" leader seems to me to be an ExTJ. NFs can lead in certain contexts, usually more involving keeping an organization synced into its primary mission (the heart and soul of the endeavor), but so often leadership seems to involve a lot of craptastic Te work, and that sort of thing can be very wearing on NFs, with their desire to personally connect with people and create meaning... not just impersonal progress towards a goal.
    Yeah, i agree with this and had one other thought. Leading typically involves starting with a cynical group of people who don't trust you, expects failure, complains, are unmotivated, feeding off of each other's negativity, etc. What personality type is best suited to deal with that and convert them to the leader's way of thinking? It is no easy task. I have done exactly that a few times in my life but it depletes my very soul. There isn't a way for me to sustain it or i do get physically sick. A person who can disregard negative emotions, yet understand what is needed to inspire people to new thinking, is the one who will succeed. It also takes a lot of outward energy to lead. The communication part tends to require that you exude a power of ten more energy than you expect to draw from the people until you can get them feeding off each other's energy. It's like social inertia.

    If i had to pick the one trait that best describes a leader, it would be good judgment. This tends to require impartiality.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  2. #12
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    5
    Posts
    1,672

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I could see an NFJ sacrificing themselves for the Greater Good, but I can't see them ever sacrificing those who have been entrusted to them. They are VERY likely to try to bear the entire cost themselves.

    NTJs are much more likely to be able to make those types of sacrifices, even if it would still hurt them.

    Honestly, I really see the "leadership" thing as dependent upon context: The sort of leadership required, the type of organization, what goals need to be met.

    If we are talking purely the "stereotypical" leader type, though, as what Toonia is describing in her post, the "best" leader seems to me to be an ExTJ. NFs can lead in certain contexts, usually more involving keeping an organization synced into its primary mission (the heart and soul of the endeavor), but so often leadership seems to involve a lot of craptastic Te work, and that sort of thing can be very wearing on NFs, with their desire to personally connect with people and create meaning... not just impersonal progress towards a goal.
    I see that i missed something big.

    But i could still be "who is the best leader in the most situations?" or "who would you put as leader if you knew a random scenario was going to occur?", maybe an ENTJ like it says in most descriptions, but i still think ENFJ might be a match.

    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    a cynical group of people who don't trust you, expects failure, complains, are unmotivated, feeding off of each other's negativity, etc.
    A bunch of INTP's then (had to say it)

    I would pick someone who used to be like they did but got inspired or something by a partner or friend, to lead them. Basically someone who feels the same way and has the experience of getting past it. They would also need the natural desire help them, which i thought would come from Fe like INFJ's.

  3. #13
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    ISTP
    Posts
    4,474

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by erm View Post
    The fact that you so precisely and correctly identified why NFJ's aren't superior leaders just convinces me more and more that NFJ's are superior in general
    Though it may not represent leadership across the board, INTJs are the most over-represented leadership type, followed by ENTJs. (roughly 3-5x and 2-4x respectively). xNFJs are under represented by 0.3 to 0.1 or so.... that makes the gap between them... well... gigantic.

    Between SFs and NFs, NFs are more represented. Between NFPs and NFJs, NFPs are actually more represented. (This is at the "upper management" and above level.)

  4. #14
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    FREE
    Enneagram
    594 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ne
    Posts
    42,333

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    I have done exactly that a few times in my life but it depletes my very soul. There isn't a way for me to sustain it or i do get physically sick.
    I know, it can be very exhausting and can easily cause so much stress as to erode one's body.

    A person who can disregard negative emotions, yet understand what is needed to inspire people to new thinking, is the one who will succeed. It also takes a lot of outward energy to lead. The communication part tends to require that you exude a power of ten more energy than you expect to draw from the people until you can get them feeding off each other's energy. It's like social inertia.
    Possibly an ENFJ who can keep things in perspective could develop this ability, out of all the NFs. They also keep their focus. When I see ENFP leaders, they have trouble with discipline and planning; they usually just trust their boundless store of energy to carry them through, then find themselves angry and/or depressed at how people are or are not responding...

    Gandhi, typically typed as INFJ, was a good leader in the sense of setting a "perfect moral" example that others could then follow. The skill is less about controlling and wielding others, more about setting the bar and thus a picture that people can emulate.

    The INFP leaders I've seen tend to do best in small groups. The ones who develop their inferior (Te) do best, that's an invaluable skill for them to have in regards to getting tasks accomplished. Where they excel is making each person on their team feel understood and their needs acknowledged.

    If i had to pick the one trait that best describes a leader, it would be good judgment. This tends to require impartiality.
    The one time I was in a long term leadership position, I could handle the strategic part well enough (what should the group be? What should we work on? What skills do we have? What outcomes are possible? What are the abstract goals and strategic principles the group should have, to be successful?) ... but it was SO exhausting for me. I just could not keep up with the Te: Planning music lists for practices, determining how to deal with people who failed in keeping their responsibilities, running the actual practice, determining the specifics of how a song should be played, and so on.

    Oh, I HATED it.... and I was so happy when someone else picked that up.

    So even a good strategist doesn't necessarily make a good 'leader' if the main tasks involved are all external and concrete ones.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  5. #15
    Guerilla Urbanist Brendan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    ENFJ
    Posts
    911

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by erm View Post
    After reading some website's article on a MB society where INFP's ruled all and progressively downwards you had each other types position, until you reached INT's at the bottom (pretty sure it was a joke), I couldn't help but think, which type would be the best at ruling others?

    So my mind conjured the three best fictional leaders that came to mind, Dumbledore, Gandalf and Moiraine, from HP, LOTR and WoT. There were other's but they become more and more unheard of.

    So the next step, to type these three, all INFJ's in my mind.
    Personally, I think Dumbledore was an ENFJ. Real life ENFJ's would include possibly Abraham Lincoln and definitely Ronald Reagan, all three of whom make excellent leaders.

    ...

    There is no such thing as separation from God.

  6. #16
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    5
    Posts
    1,672

    Default

    Leadership wasn't really the purpose of this thread just how the thought occurred to me, my idea was that NFJ's have more of a purpose and are better at following through with them, and this in my books would make them superior, if true (i also think they are naturally intelligent and competent). I wanted to here peoples experience of NFJ's and for NFJ's of themselves.

    Don't mind people talking about leadership, but was hoping for some responses.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brendan View Post
    Personally, I think Dumbledore was an ENFJ. Real life ENFJ's would include possibly Abraham Lincoln and definitely Ronald Reagan, all three of whom make excellent leaders.

    ...

    I can't see where the E comes from, if he took a test i reckon he'd come out as INFJ, maybe not strong I but he spends most awake time alone and seems to like that.

  7. #17
    にゃん runvardh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 sx/so
    Socionics
    IEI
    Posts
    8,559

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Uberfuhrer View Post
    I think Gandalf is more ENTJ.
    I was half thinking about that type too, you may very well be right.
    Dreams are best served manifest and tangible.

    INFP, 6w7, IEI

    I accept no responsibility, what so ever, for the fact that I exist; I do, however, accept full responsibility for what I do while I exist.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  8. #18
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    FREE
    Enneagram
    594 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ne
    Posts
    42,333

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by erm View Post
    Leadership wasn't really the purpose of this thread just how the thought occurred to me, my idea was that NFJ's have more of a purpose and are better at following through with them, and this in my books would make them superior, if true (i also think they are naturally intelligent and competent). I wanted to here peoples experience of NFJ's and for NFJ's of themselves.

    Don't mind people talking about leadership, but was hoping for some responses.
    You asked for comments about "ruling others." That sounds like leadership, does it not? I am not sure what you're asking for. If you could be more specific, that would help.

    My one experience with an ENFJ in a leadership position was that he was very good at setting a vision, doing things by group consensus, inspiring people's passion, doing a lot of the actual detail work and Te stuff, and getting everyone involved.

    Unfortunately, the entire endeavor failed because he was not good at strategic marketing, or of separating an "idea HE liked" from an "idea that had a chance to succeed," or of when to take one person's opinion over another. In the end, he refused to change his vision, even when it was clear his vision needed to be changed (based on actual customer surveys and needs analysis) in order to meet the market.

    I am not sure what you mean by referring to the "best" either. The best at WHAT exactly? No type is the BEST at everything. They all have flaws. You should qualify what you mean a bit better, to help focus the answers people are offering.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  9. #19
    heart on fire
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    8,457

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    Maybe I'm not an NFJ, but I could not sacrifice the people I love for The Greater Good.
    Me neither, but then I am not hungry for leadership or fame either.

  10. #20
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    5
    Posts
    1,672

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    You asked for comments about "ruling others." That sounds like leadership, does it not? I am not sure what you're asking for. If you could be more specific, that would help.

    My one experience with an ENFJ in a leadership position was that he was very good at setting a vision, doing things by group consensus, inspiring people's passion, doing a lot of the actual detail work and Te stuff, and getting everyone involved.

    Unfortunately, the entire endeavor failed because he was not good at strategic marketing, or of separating an "idea HE liked" from an "idea that had a chance to succeed," or of when to take one person's opinion over another. In the end, he refused to change his vision, even when it was clear his vision needed to be changed (based on actual customer surveys and needs analysis) in order to meet the market.

    I am not sure what you mean by referring to the "best" either. The best at WHAT exactly? No type is the BEST at everything. They all have flaws. You should qualify what you mean a bit better, to help focus the answers people are offering.
    Well the bold underlined sections where the only part anyone had to read to answer my question.

    Your description of that particular ENFJ is what i imagined them to be like, highly motivated, inspiring, imaginitive and loyal. But they often take these traits to far and turn them into what most people see as weaknesses.

    I knew using the words best and superior would be a bad idea! I know they need to be clarified, i was just hoping people would run by their instincts on what best means, like when you say negative, positive, constructive and destructive, all need to be clarified to what purpose but no one ever does. Scrap that though. Descriptions on NFJ's and what it's like to be one is all i want. Any ideas or insight around NFJ's would be nice too, talk about what you will though.

Similar Threads

  1. [MBTItm] NFJ's and fitting
    By ColonelGadaafi in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: 06-11-2009, 08:14 PM
  2. [MBTItm] Do NFJs tend to be the most private types?
    By Glycerine in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 34
    Last Post: 04-10-2009, 09:19 PM
  3. [INFJ] NFJ Temperament Question
    By Domino in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 68
    Last Post: 03-14-2009, 05:18 PM
  4. [MBTItm] NFJ: Not Done Being Angry Yet
    By Domino in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 89
    Last Post: 03-09-2009, 05:50 PM
  5. [MBTItm] NFJ's: Do NFP's Lighten You Up?
    By WieldingTheSword in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 51
    Last Post: 02-23-2009, 11:16 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO