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[MBTI General] Help me with some INFJ bait...

Lauren Ashley

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I feel like a weird infj now. I don't necessarily want that intensity (I've found men tend to interpret my intensity as a reason to become obsessed with me, and that equals being held down that that sends me running). I value my independence and if it's and 'intense' emotional connection or my independence I'm going to go with the latter. As long as my intellectual intensity is met and I'm not denied the truth of my own emotions I'm ok with a rather casual and jovial relationship.

Why can't you have intensity and independence? I certainly don't like bossiness in a partner, but I don't think that intensity has to equal the person wanting to control my every movement.

What is this "casual and jovial" relationship you speak of? I don't do casual in the general sense, but I'm not sure what you mean by casual here.

Actually, ime I think this is an area where an INTP can be great (not easily weirded out) as can an ISTJ. ISTJ seem to be able to stick with things.

I think an INTJ with developed Fi would be very good, and not that uncommon amongst INTJs. I don't think I'd do well with the SJ temperament for long, but I'll keep an open mind.
 

briochick

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Why can't you have intensity and independence? I certainly don't like bossiness in a partner, but I don't think that intensity has to equal the person wanting to control my every movement.

What is this "casual and jovial" relationship you speak of? I don't do casual in the general sense, but I'm not sure what you mean by casual here.

Why can't I have the intensity and independence? Because no one will give it to me. Certainly not my choice. When there's a lack of intensity or commitment I've found that guys seem more willing to not ....accuse me of things.

The casual and jovial is one where you know it's not going anywhere so you can actually have fun, and debate, and not worry about the other person getting so upset, and not getting upset yourself if they do. In that relationship you obviously don't have the promise that you (I?) want but at least it's something. Not that I don't want everything, I do, but I've found it's very unlikely that I'll get it,and while I don't want to be hopeless I do want to be practical. (note: nearly all of this is theoretical as my experience with romance is limited to three or four personal relationships and what I've seen of friends and relatives)
 
Last edited:

Anja

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This caught my eye, Brio. Do you know that independence is not given. It is taken. Yes!
 

nightning

ish red no longer *sad*
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Quiet humor.

Offer that and see what happens.
 

briochick

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This caught my eye, Brio. Do you know that independence is not given. It is taken. Yes!

Yes, well, can you explain that a little more thoroughly?
 
V

violaine

Guest
Why can't you have intensity and independence? I certainly don't like bossiness in a partner, but I don't think that intensity has to equal the person wanting to control my every movement.

What is this "casual and jovial" relationship you speak of? I don't do casual in the general sense, but I'm not sure what you mean by casual here.

I think an INTJ with developed Fi would be very good, and not that uncommon amongst INTJs. I don't think I'd do well with the SJ temperament for long, but I'll keep an open mind.

Oh, I'm not necessarily recommending ISTJ for INFJ! I was just saying the INFJ 'intensity' doesn't seem to scare them. It didn't work out for me in the end.

(Not directed to me but I don't do casual in relationships either despite my best efforts. I think you can have both intensity and independence.)
 

Lauren Ashley

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The casual and jovial is one where you know it's not going anywhere...

Not going anywhere?! :sad: I always measure the long-term potential of a relationship. I would never enter a relationship that I feel would not go anywhere or stay in one after it's revealed to me that the relationship is heading in that direction.

Oh, I guess that's a way to capture an INFJ's heart. Show her/him you're long-term material.


Quiet humor.

Offer that and see what happens.

...That too. I like that.
 

briochick

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Not going anywhere?! :sad: I always measure the long-term potential of a relationship. I would never enter a relationship that I feel would not go anywhere or stay in one after it's revealed to me that the relationship is heading in that direction.

Oh, I guess that's a way to capture an INFJ's heart. Show her/him you're long-term material.

hmmm, I guess I should have been more specific. In a relationship like that there's no chance of me sharing my heart. That I would only share in a long term relationship that had proved itself, and that's probably the only relationship I'd be happy in. :blush: I am an infj after all. Maybe it's like getting the mangy (sp?) cat from the dumpster rather than the healthy one from the pet shop. It'll never be quite right and it'll probably take off pretty soon but at least for a while you can pretend you have a cat of your own.

And I do agree that showing yourself to be long-term material is a way to capture an infj's heart. Also, there's a forum about nfs or infjs (can't remember) and what they value in relationships, taking a look at that might help a lot too.
 

Lexicon

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Not going anywhere?! :sad: I always measure the long-term potential of a relationship. I would never enter a relationship that I feel would not go anywhere or stay in one after it's revealed to me that the relationship is heading in that direction.

Oh, I guess that's a way to capture an INFJ's heart. Show her/him you're long-term material.

I'd have to agree, though I also agree with brio's perspective on emotional intensity vs. personal independence.

The relationship can have a casual/jovial feel to it, as long as we understand one another on most levels. Or strive to.

Basically I believe we all need a balance in the relationship, which result in a very satisfying, mutual sort of intensity within the relationship dynamic.
If we ourselves are at least, relatively balanced, that is.
With INFJs, it may take a decent amount of time to reach that level of intimacy to begin with.
 

Lexicon

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And no one is better than an INTJ at it.

Agreed. INTJs have won me over in the past with their dry (occasionally violent) humor.
I'd also have to include INTPs.
I don't interact with enough extroverted types to make any further judgements yet.
 

EcK

The Memes Justify the End
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you might consider bear traps. Worked for me.

Whatever u catch, surgery can fix it.
 

Samvega

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I started this thread more as a topic of general discussion, i.e. could a group of any one type put together a post for craigslist that would draw in a heavy number of that type. If this had been a social experiment and my intention was not to respect other people I wouldhave just done this based on ENTPs. However because I'm interested in the ENTP/INFJ dynamic I made this post assuming it would be fun and have some mock craigslist posts both real and maybe funny.

This clearly has turned into something totally different and makes me wonder. I think I'm understanding why I have never met an INFJ in real life. From what I'm hearing you would rather stay alone than meet people even if they are kind and genuine.

I guess it's just sad because from how you seem to speak of yourself you almost seemingly think there is nobody that will ever "get" you or "handle" you, as if you're other than an ST, SJ, NF, NT all together.

there isn't really anything you can bait an INFJ with as baiting involves some amount of deceit or trickery and simply put it's hard to make a person who's so aware of the way everything interacts with everything head unknowingly in any direction when they have already discovered the deeper meaning of the situation.

That's a rather depressing view of this. I put seed out to "bait" birds, my yard is full of quail and inca dove, do you think if they were as "aware" as an INFJ they would stop eating my food to avoid me being able to look at how beautiful they are?

Are you sure you want a relationship specifically with an INFJ? I think INFJs can be pretty intense emotionally in relationships and this is not for everyone, especially EPs who tend to like a lighter, "fun" approach.

I think you pointed out the motivation behind my post. I think in a relationship the E/P come down to a choice for the individual. Do you want to be a more balanced person in those areas as that takes some work and effort. Or would you rather stay as you are and not change anything, would you rather keep things totally comfortable? I think a balance of intense/fun seems just about right. An ENTP in love is more intense than most can handle so personally it sounds like a pretty good match. Also, I have worked hard to put my 95% P in check a little. I couldn't be with another P and no matter how extroverted an ENTP is we still desire HUGE amounts of alone time so I have a very tough time with other extroverts.

Basically, regular gossip, & other varieties of "small-talk" is difficult for this INFJ on any platform for communication. I have a couple of INT/F friends who can keep me on the phone for a decent amount of time.

I was just writing something on being an ENTP and dating so I'll quote that for my opinion of small talk:

"2) I would honestly rather talk in graphic detail about eating a fetus than make small talk or hear about your work politics. I just don't rightly give a shit. I may totally care about and love you but it's more fun to talk about beating the people up with animals than whimpering about stuff you can't or won't change. I try to be nice but my default answers have always just been "they're jealous of you" or "maybe you should look for a new job" the reality however is that I'm totally placating you and would rather be getting my teeth extracted by some Al Qaeda member who's nickname is "the dentist"!"

Tend to agree. Never been a phone person. I only see it as a tool to make plans or whatever; I don't use it to actually carry on a conversation (in general). There's a certain awkwardness in the phone for me; it's possibly due to my not being able to see the other persons' facial expression or read their body language as they're talking, as the non-verbal in real life is half of what I go off of in getting to know a person.

I honestly find that hard to believe as we're (ENTPs or at least I am) normally excellent with talking to intensely shy people. We also always have something random and of interest to say so you can't get bored with the conversation easy. I can't tell you how many people have commented on how easy I am to talk on the phone with. I am curious what your experience has been with talking to an ENTP?

Also, I've never been on craigslist, and I've never heard my other two INFJ friends mention they've been on it either. We use other avenues for the various things craigslist is used for. And for myself, I don't really trust craigslist. Too many unknowns, especially with regards to meeting people. I have utilized dating sites though in the past. [But I suppose one could argue those are just as random as craigslist!]

I think if you're just 100% real, you can't go too wrong. Then it's just a matter of whether there's any connection, similar ground, and chemistry. INFJ's would be able to sniff out deception, and if they caught any, I'd say good luck at mending that!

Interesting fact but for all the "danger" people seem to place on the internet there has only been one murder as a result of craigslist ever and it had nothing to do with dating. For a website that's been around for 13 years and has 30,000,000 unique users a month I think that's slightly impressive!

Did you notice the two statements in bold? I will leave it at that.

So I'm not picking a fight and I apologize if I come off that way. Communication via written word is nothing something ENTPs are good at and I'm sure Synarch will agree there. All I'm doing is pointing out that there is something amazing about being in love and feeling connected to somebody but you won't ever have that if you're so mis-trusting of people and aren't able to talk on the phone. I mean, I don't mind earning the trust needed for somebody to let me see over their walls or let me in but from this tread it sounds like your walls have turned into roofs as well.
 

cascadeco

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I honestly find that hard to believe as we're (ENTPs or at least I am) normally excellent with talking to intensely shy people. We also always have something random and of interest to say so you can't get bored with the conversation easy. I can't tell you how many people have commented on how easy I am to talk on the phone with. I am curious what your experience has been with talking to an ENTP?

I was speaking generally, as it is a fact that I don't enjoy using the phone for communication. I think I also mentioned that there are rare people who I've been fine with on the phone. But, it's rare. Bantering, good conversation flow, not one-sided, easy.

I don't know any ENTP's right now. (edit - I am acquainted with one guy, but that's been more of an e-friendship for a few yrs and I've only met him in person a few times.) I had a female ENTP friend as a child, but that's basically the extent of my experience.

Interesting fact but for all the "danger" people seem to place on the internet there has only been one murder as a result of craigslist ever and it had nothing to do with dating. For a website that's been around for 13 years and has 30,000,000 unique users a month I think that's slightly impressive!

Did you notice the two statements in bold? I will leave it at that.

lol. I was mostly just trying to convey that craigslist is probably not your best avenue for finding INFJ's, and I used myself and my friends as an example. Craigslist...I really don't want to bother with it. I can be quite lazy at times.;) If I am going to utilize the internet for dating, I'm going to use a site specific for dating. I mentioned that I've used dating websites in the past, so I'm definitely familiar with the ins and outs of meeting people off the net - I've met dozens of people over the years.

All I'm doing is pointing out that there is something amazing about being in love and feeling connected to somebody

I don't think many NF's would argue with that....

but you won't ever have that if you're so mis-trusting of people and aren't able to talk on the phone. I mean, I don't mind earning the trust needed for somebody to let me see over their walls or let me in but from this tread it sounds like your walls have turned into roofs as well.

..And this is probably a bit of an exaggeration.;) It's not as black and white as that, but you have pinpointed something that INFJ's are perhaps known for - being slower to trust, and needing time to build that trust, and putting up walls at times.

But I think if you want to understand INFJ's (and certainly there are many flavors, and it would be silly to say all INFJ's hate the phone, because I don't really think that's the case), you need to take some of these little things into consideration, as the INFJ thought process and approach to the world and relationships is going to have some distinct differences from ENTP.

I for one didn't take what you wrote in a negative light, but I was trying to be honest in some of my feelings about and reactions to certain things.
 

AgentOrange

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Are you sure you want a relationship specifically with an INFJ? I think INFJs can be pretty intense emotionally in relationships and this is not for everyone, especially EPs who tend to like a lighter, "fun" approach.

Yeah, I mostly deal with a male INFJ so I'm not sure it's as applicable, but I find that I have to approach his intense emotional periods by both taking him seriously, but not taking things too personally at the same time.
It can be hard, especially for EP's because I know I personally have that whole disgustingly optimistic, go-with-the-flow thing working for me, and the urge to know what's going on with people so I can "fix" them.

However, INFJ's need their space to do their whole a million thoughts at once thing, and to really get over something. The awesome thing is usually once they get over it, they tend to really appreciate the support, and are very apologetic for any hurt they may have caused. I will warn you that in my experience, it forces one to exercise patience (more than I'm use to, haha), but I also think that if you find one that rocks it's totally worth it ;) .

As for finding an INFJ maybe you could look at interests forums (deviant art for example)? I know that at least with my guy his guard is much lower than usual when he's talking about photography, dinosaurs, airplanes or something that he's equally passionate about =).
 

Lauren Ashley

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I think I'm understanding why I have never met an INFJ in real life. From what I'm hearing you would rather stay alone than meet people even if they are kind and genuine.

Maybe you have and you just didn't know. The INFJs I know in real life, including myself, are out and about pretty often for introverts. Our auxiliary function, Fe, pushes us to connect with people. Especially if they are kind and genuine.

I think you pointed out the motivation behind my post. I think in a relationship the E/P come down to a choice for the individual. Do you want to be a more balanced person in those areas as that takes some work and effort. Or would you rather stay as you are and not change anything, would you rather keep things totally comfortable?

I'm pretty okay with the way I am ;)
Speaking only for myself, I have no special desire to develop more E or P as those are against my nature and would only cause me stress. If I naturally become more extraverted or perceiving, that's fine, but I'm not looking to be.

All I'm doing is pointing out that there is something amazing about being in love and feeling connected to somebody but you won't ever have that if you're so mis-trusting of people and aren't able to talk on the phone.

I don't automatically trust or mistrust people; I evaluate each person on a case by case basis. But the issue of trust is not forefront in my mind usually. And I personally like talking on the phone, though other INFJs have said they don't.
 

Synarch

Once Was
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So I'm not picking a fight and I apologize if I come off that way. Communication via written word is nothing something ENTPs are good at and I'm sure Synarch will agree there. All I'm doing is pointing out that there is something amazing about being in love and feeling connected to somebody but you won't ever have that if you're so mis-trusting of people and aren't able to talk on the phone. I mean, I don't mind earning the trust needed for somebody to let me see over their walls or let me in but from this tread it sounds like your walls have turned into roofs as well.

I am skeptical in general of communication, in any of its guises. I have seen the limits of it, time and time again. It is no small task to convey what you feel / think in a way that is comprehensible all while trying to do the same for the other person. I work very hard at communicating and find plenty of work still left to do. It never ends. Maybe that is a good thing. Nothing worth doing well is ever easy.

One problem I have is that I often need to talk about things to figure out what I feel. This is a problem sometimes.

Personally, I have never met an INFJ who had a problem with talking on the phone. It's more that INFJ's are reluctant to spend time talking about frivolous matters.
 
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