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  1. #1
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Default NFs and feelings of other people

    Why NFs care about others peoples feelings so much?


    To me it looks like that NFs can care so much about other peoples feelings that this skill can block their ability to operate normally during the day.
    Is this because you are afraid of creating enemies or when you hurt someone, you hate yourself for the rest of the day.
    I know it is both but I am interested in ratio.

    Do you think that all people are equally soft at core?


    It can happen that NFs(usually ENFPs) will be so friendly that he/she will say something awkward or hurtful (by their standards) and they will apologize over and over again and in the end they will feel bad about it.
    Why so defensive attitude?

    When it comes to talking with me they can sometimes end up somewhat disturbed because they realise that they didn't even scratch the surface.
    What can make them even more uncomfortable. (I presume)



    Also NFs say that they can feel other peoples feeling as their own.
    I am interested in which way does this really efect you.



    Do you give empathy/simpathy to others(when they need it) in a way that you are aware of it or in a more spontaneous way?
    This is probably part where J/P will play a role.


    Also it looks to me that one of the greatest fears of NFs is that they will be in bad mood so that they will not notice that the person who they love is suffering and it needs their help and care.
    Is this true?


    I think that probably all of this works for SFs also and I wouldn't mind to get their opinion on this as well.

  2. #2
    Senior Member aufs klo's Avatar
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    For me, I think i need external cues to validate my own self-image. I need someone to feel good about being with me, for me to feel good about me. If someone feels negativly about me, so do i.

    It can happen that NFs(usually ENFPs) will be so friendly that he/she will say something awkward or hurtful (by their standards) and they will apologize over and over again and in the end they will feel bad about it.
    Why so defensive attitude?
    Because if think i crossed my own line, i assume i crossed the line of the other person. I just assume everyone would get offended about the same stuff. Then sometimes I'll appologize for appologizing because I realize how stupid I was being (because they thought it was stupid).

    And about feeling others' feelings, the other day I had a moment where I ran into someone I don't like. They saw me, and turned away, but i saw how depressed and negative they looked. My first instinct was, 'okay, going over there and talking to her will make her feel ten times better,' so I went over there, 100% ignoring that it was literally the last thing in the world I wanted to do. Oi, why can't I just not do that... So, for me, it's more subliminal than even spontaneous.

    And yeah, I can be in a really depressed mood, just waiting for someone to notice, but compleatly hiding it. But that doesn't happen too often, being happy is more fun than depressed.
    Last edited by aufs klo; 12-12-2008 at 03:29 PM. Reason: asdf
    What's up universe?

  3. #3
    Senior Member placebo's Avatar
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    Why NFs care about others peoples feelings so much?

    I don't. I care about mine more to a significant degree.

    To me it looks like that NFs can care so much about other peoples feelings that this skill can block their ability to operate normally during the day.
    Is this because you are afraid of creating enemies or when you hurt someone, you hate yourself for the rest of the day.
    I know it is both but I am interested in ratio.


    I am considerate, but I don't feel incredibly guilty if someone's feelings are hurt unless I am sure I am responsible for it. To me, everyone is responsible for their own feelings to a good extent.

    Do you think that all people are equally soft at core?

    Absolutely not. I believe very few people are 'soft at core' if I think I know what you mean by that.

    It can happen that NFs(usually ENFPs) will be so friendly that he/she will say something awkward or hurtful (by their standards) and they will apologize over and over again and in the end they will feel bad about it.
    Why so defensive attitude?


    Well I am an Introvert, so maybe this doesn't apply. I will apologize to someone if they express that they are hurt. I may also apologize if I think I may have accidently offended them without meaning to, but I will not overtly. It is not defensive, it is out of consideration. I wouldn't want someone to say something hurtful and not express that they are aware of it and may be sorry.

    Also NFs say that they can feel other peoples feeling as their own.
    I am interested in which way does this really efect you.


    This is true for me. There are times I almost absorb a person's mood and feel like I am chameleonizing with it. It's to do with empathy I think--the ability to sense and truly feel myself an aspect of what they express. I feel it helps me to relate to them and communicate with someone better because they sense that I can feel the same as them. There are times though that this has undesirable effects. Such as when someone close to me is in a particularly negative mood. I will easily adopt a similar negative mood, simply on the basis that they have one. And this is not always a great thing because it can just make the situation worse, or make me feel worse.

    Do you give empathy/simpathy to others(when they need it) in a way that you are aware of it or in a more spontaneous way?
    This is probably part where J/P will play a role.


    I only give empathy/sympathy to others when they specifically seek it from me. I don't go handing it out easily. But of course there are spontaneous moments.

    Also it looks to me that one of the greatest fears of NFs is that they will be in bad mood so that they will not notice that the person who they love is suffering and it needs their help and care.
    Is this true?


    No, I don't think so, at least not for me.

  4. #4
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    It is interesting to see the I/E difference in those posts.

  5. #5
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    You really need to make the distinction between NFJ and NFP. I know an ENFP with Narcissistic Personality Disorder (in my opinion at least) that doesn't care about the feelings of others at all. She's not apologetic either. Her stance is that her feelings are always completely justified, no matter how anyone reacts. I'm not saying all NFPs are like this, but Fi is much less likely to directly care about other people's feelings than NFJ. That's because the value judgments of Fi users are internally validated.

    So yeah, I was just providing a counter-example.

    Anyways, to answer the question that I'm sure you meant: caring about other people's feelings is pretty much genetically programmed into us (not all of us, but some percentage of the population). We could ask you why you don't care. If you think about it, there is an evolutionary purpose to caring about other people's feelings, as group harmony facilitates trade (which is, by definition, mutually beneficial). The basis of human society is trade/specialization/teamwork or whatever you want to call it. If there were no people like us, the human race would be less efficient overall. It's merely a specialized skill.

    Now, I guess it's true that once the percentage of people that care about other's feelings gets high enough, it starts to make the same trait (caring about other people's feelings) more useful, as those that don't have it are santioned (negatively reinforced) by those who are. But I think it's reached a balancing point. And I honestly see it as beneficial to society on a large scale.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Snow Turtle's Avatar
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    It constantly makes me smile when I see other people around me having a good time, or experiencing a positive stable emotion. Their happiness definitely impacts my level of contentment.

    One of my most important values is maintaining and generating a positive environment around myself. Considering that I'm focused on this, I'll pick up on small details given out by other people including their general emotional vibes. (Empathy) If it's negative energy. Depending on my mood, I'll try and reduce the negative vibe so that I'm surrounded by positive moods again. (Sympathy)

    Once I've become aware that there is something wrong. I can't ignore the problem.

  7. #7
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    I'm gonna answer the rest of your questions directly now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    To me it looks like that NFs can care so much about other peoples feelings that this skill can block their ability to operate normally during the day.
    Is this because you are afraid of creating enemies or when you hurt someone, you hate yourself for the rest of the day.
    I know it is both but I am interested in ratio.
    This is an interesting question. I honestly think that the two options are really the same thing. Consciously, I feel terrible when I hurt other people. But why? Well, because making enemies is harmful to my well-being. Since I take the stance that everyone is always selfish at all times (conscious or unconscious), I'd say the real reason is that making enemies negatively affects us, but it's consciously instantiated as "feeling bad", which serves to direct our attention to that specific problem.

    Do you think that all people are equally soft at core?
    I don't know exactly what that means.

    I think that all people are entirely selfish, and that all people have very strong emotions. From an evolutionary standpoint, emotion can be a way of integrating larger-scale productivity into selfish motives. But that doesn't have to be true. Take anger, for instance. Well, if you get angry at someone, it sends them the message "if you don't back down, this is just gonna get worse for you". In a sense, anger makes you more powerful.

    But take love -- you want to find a partner that will fall in love with you because it makes them less rational which means they're less likely to leave you for someone "better". Love makes you weaker.

    Anyway, people have all sorts of different capacities for anger and love (and tons of other emotions), so no, not everyone is equally soft.

    On the other hand, we are all just animals, and we all fear death. We're all scared that we will lose control over the environment around us. We all have our different strategies of controlling the environment, but they come from the same basic fear. So in that sense, we are all equally "soft", if that's what you're asking.

    It can happen that NFs(usually ENFPs) will be so friendly that he/she will say something awkward or hurtful (by their standards) and they will apologize over and over again and in the end they will feel bad about it.
    Why so defensive attitude?
    Giving the other person the idea that you really feel terrible means that they aren't as threatened by you, which means you actually gain an advantage over them.

    When it comes to talking with me they can sometimes end up somewhat disturbed because they realise that they didn't even scratch the surface.
    What can make them even more uncomfortable. (I presume)

    Also NFs say that they can feel other peoples feeling as their own.
    I am interested in which way does this really efect you.
    I definitely do feel other people's feelings as my own. Like, when someone does something I imagine I would be embarrassed by, I get a surge of embarrassment feeling. It may even be as strong as that person's feeling, or even stronger.

    When other people are incredibly sad, I feel it so deeply that all I want to do is help them. And when there is no help, I feel the same hopeless feeling as they do. For example, I didn't cry at my friends brother's funeral until I saw his parents, and knew how horrible they were feeling and that there was nothing anyone could do to make them feel better.

    Do you give empathy/simpathy to others(when they need it) in a way that you are aware of it or in a more spontaneous way?
    This is probably part where J/P will play a role.
    It's entirely spontaneous for me, but that doesn't mean I'm not aware of it. Most of the time, I think about it afterwards and realize how it actually was beneficial to me. And just because it's spontaneous (not consciously calculated) doesn't mean it wasn't unconsciously calculated. In fact, it had to be unconsciously calculated or I wouldn't do it!

    Also it looks to me that one of the greatest fears of NFs is that they will be in bad mood so that they will not notice that the person who they love is suffering and it needs their help and care.
    Is this true?
    Yeah. I'm afraid that my own mood could get in the way of my navigating the social environment around me. Again, it might consciously manifest as needing to help those that I love, but unconsciously, it's all cost-benefit analysis. Helping those around me is kinda like putting money in the bank. The more I help them, the more they'll want to help me. So if something goes wrong in my life, I always have people that will do things for me.

  8. #8
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by evan View Post
    You really need to make the distinction between NFJ and NFP. I know an ENFP with Narcissistic Personality Disorder (in my opinion at least) that doesn't care about the feelings of others at all. She's not apologetic either. Her stance is that her feelings are always completely justified, no matter how anyone reacts. I'm not saying all NFPs are like this, but Fi is much less likely to directly care about other people's feelings than NFJ. That's because the value judgments of Fi users are internally validated.

    So yeah, I was just providing a counter-example.

    Anyways, to answer the question that I'm sure you meant: caring about other people's feelings is pretty much genetically programmed into us (not all of us, but some percentage of the population). We could ask you why you don't care. If you think about it, there is an evolutionary purpose to caring about other people's feelings, as group harmony facilitates trade (which is, by definition, mutually beneficial). The basis of human society is trade/specialization/teamwork or whatever you want to call it. If there were no people like us, the human race would be less efficient overall. It's merely a specialized skill.

    Now, I guess it's true that once the percentage of people that care about other's feelings gets high enough, it starts to make the same trait (caring about other people's feelings) more useful, as those that don't have it are santioned (negatively reinforced) by those who are. But I think it's reached a balancing point. And I honestly see it as beneficial to society on a large scale.

    I know that there is a differece but that would make too much text and questions.So many people would not have patience to read all of that and then to reply.
    So I have just made some questions in which I am interested in and now I am just watching what will happen. Actually this way I can even understand difference between NFP and NFJ in more practical way.

    Why I don't care?
    I would not say that I don't care in real sense of those word it is just that I have very strong T. When it comes to people I can make many conclusions just like an F.
    But their problem is not disturbing for me and I don't feel their emotions.

    The fact that someone can have so much warm feelings about someone else surprises me when I see it.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    I think this view of NF and their feelings for others is too romantic. I don't kiss ass, I'm not a nicy nice guy. I hate hypocrisy more than anything.


    Empathy is the correct word in that I put myself in other people's shoes and I choose whether or not to be nice depending on whether I think the person deserves it in any given situation or not.

    Whereas a thinker would say "this guy screwed us up by not doing his part of the project" and then maybe penalize the person for his actions, I'd say "this guy screwed us up by not doing his part of the project but I can see why that might have happened; that's happened to me before so he deserves another chance".


    If someone is being nice to me out of personal gain or is being hypocritical...

    a thinker might accept the compliment or help or whatever, dunno really...


    ...me? I'd reject that person's niceness right there and then and would hold it against him/her.

  10. #10
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    i totally deleted my super long post sorry...

    i just think you'd get a different answer depending on the day...idk

    i'm really empathetic but i do choose who to be that way with most of the time.i can share their emotions and i try to help them feel better because that's what i would want.

    i honestly believe everyone deserves equal respect so it bothers me if i or someone else is treating someone less then they deserve...so...i think it's important to me that everyone feels valued...and equal...no one is going to run me...and i'm not gonna run anyone else.

    hope that answered it more accurately and less dramatically then the previous post.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

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