User Tag List

First 152324252627 Last

Results 241 to 250 of 291

  1. #241
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Posts
    4,318

    Default

    You know, if you guys would just say "management" instead of "manipulation" it'd make more sense of why Fe gets to be a J function.
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  2. #242
    resonance entropie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    MBTI
    entp
    Enneagram
    783
    Posts
    16,761

    Default

    like: who're more manageable ? Didnt know you INTJs had that nasty thoughts
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  3. #243
    lurking.... Wyst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Posts
    1,662

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    You always play this little trick. Run of the mill INFJ baiting.
    I knew it would get a response from one of you. I swear pushing that button never gets old.

  4. #244
    Senior Member Lightyear's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    903

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wyst View Post

    INFJs, on the other hand, are far less brash. They're like ninjas using their Ni to get the job done. In a sneak attack, they slip in, plant the subliminal message, and escape. INFJs (healthy ones) also would never manipulate to the point of risking the relationship either. They would, rather than strong arm the person quickly to get what they want when they want, be patient, and slowly change the person's mind (brainwash them).
    I definitely have an evangelistic streak, when I am really passionate about something I have the power to influence people. However I am very careful about manipulation, I would feel incredibly bad and fake about coercing someone into doing something for my own selfish gain, even if the person did in the end exactly what I wanted them to do I wouldn't be able to enjoy the victory because I would hate myself for the manipulation.

    It's something else if I try to get people to do something for the greater good or if I have their best interests in mind, I will try to guide them towards what I consider the right path but I will also always give them an in-built exit strategy, again I would hate myself if I really forced someone to do something against their will.

  5. #245
    lurking.... Wyst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Posts
    1,662

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightyear View Post
    I definitely have an evangelistic streak, when I am really passionate about something I have the power to influence people. However I am very careful about manipulation, I would feel incredibly bad and fake about coercing someone into doing something for my own selfish gain, even if the person did in the end exactly what I wanted them to do I wouldn't be able to enjoy the victory because I would hate myself for the manipulation.

    It's something else if I try to get people to do something for the greater good or if I have their best interests in mind, I will try to guide them towards what I consider the right path but I will also always give them an in-built exit strategy, again I would hate myself if I really forced someone to do something against their will.
    But you think there's a difference between manipulation and winning someone over, don't you. There's lots of stories where the girl was NOT interested in the guy but he kept at it and she ended up falling for him.

    I wouldn't even think to say he manipulated just because she changed his mind. Manipulation comes into play when you use a person's personality, situation/circumstances, fears, motivations and other stuff as a 'carrott' to get them to walk in the direction you want to.

    So, to use my example above but change it a bit...

    Let's say an ENTP dude, for example, notices there's a single mom who's not making ends meet and he uses this knowledge to his advantage. He befriends the woman, 'learns' of her situation 'for the first time', expresses compassion, offers to help, and won't accept any kind of gratitude except a spoken 'thank you'. But later he'll come back and talk about some kind of tough situation, maybe tell a sad story that he used to be the son of a single mom who was barely making ends meet trying to strike a chord with the woman... suddenly he's trying to get her to feel something for him using her situation and what he's done to gain selfishly.. you get my point, right?

  6. #246
    Senior Member Lightyear's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    903

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wyst View Post
    But you think there's a difference between manipulation and winning someone over, don't you. There's lots of stories where the girl was NOT interested in the guy but he kept at it and she ended up falling for him.

    I wouldn't even think to say he manipulated just because she changed his mind. Manipulation comes into play when you use a person's personality, situation/circumstances, fears, motivations and other stuff as a 'carrott' to get them to walk in the direction you want to.

    So, to use my example above but change it a bit...

    Let's say an ENTP dude notices there's a single mom who's not making ends meet and he uses this knowledge to his advantage. He befriends the woman, 'learns' of her situation 'for the first time', expresses compassion, offers to help, and won't accept any kind of gratitude except a spoken 'thank you'. But later he'll come back and talk about some kind of tough situation, maybe tell a sad story that he used to be the son of a single mom who was barely making ends meet trying to strike a chord with the woman... suddenly he's trying to get her to feel something for him using her situation and what he's done to gain selfishly.. you get my point, right?
    Yes there is a difference though especially very charismatic/charming people (I am thinking especially of ENFxs here.) are always walking on a very thin line, are they just winning people over through their natural enthusiasm or do they have ulterior motives behind the smile? I think it doesn't really matter what special skills for manipulation you have been born with but it all depends on the attitude of your heart, if and how you use these skills.

    That's why though I am pretty sure I could manipulate well if I put my mind to it I just couldn't do it from a moral point of view, I would feel awful afterwards.

  7. #247
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    MBTI
    infj
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Posts
    2,460

    Default

    capable infjs that learn how to maximize Fe like enfps maximize Fi and entps maximize Ti and intjs maximize Te get to be pretty fucking good at long-distance endurance-running course-charting. harmonizing and persuading the social environment. making the right moves, etc.

    i'm thinking a combination of gandhi and charles manson (tho i have no idea what type he actually was). with some strong Ti clarifying Ni and making it sound logical and rhetorically persuasive, we can lead in our way. and leading is really what this thread is about.

    we feel we have more conscience than entps, bc we have better access to the overall mood and personal values of others (otherness) and we are usually far more 4 and 9. 9 is the best at hearing others, and 4 is the best at dealing with internal contradictions. so we feel privileged as if we alone hold the key to ETHICS. but then you've all met 4s and they're slipping into the most intense self-absorption and wallowing in it in a worse way than you've ever seen and 9s are lashing out in anger from bottling up their frustrations and turning so sour. so what do you do with that?

    bc they clash with me most of all, i find 3s to be the most manipulative. image-control and impression-management maxed out. like 8s are the most directly coercive. 7s will be manipulative in that they will get you going without really investing in the end result, but hey, lighten up! 4s just can't seem to get enough love and attention and good loving feelings, love me, love me, etc. 5s are awful at pure fickleness and miserliness that they use to push-pull people about and keep the interaction in their favor (the upper hand!). 6w5 get super defiant and 6w7 gets codependent that flavors and directs their interactions with others and forces them into specific places and situations and response patterns.

  8. #248
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    4,226

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wyst View Post
    Let's say an ENTP dude, for example, notices there's a single mom who's not making ends meet and he uses this knowledge to his advantage. He befriends the woman, 'learns' of her situation 'for the first time', expresses compassion, offers to help, and won't accept any kind of gratitude except a spoken 'thank you'. But later he'll come back and talk about some kind of tough situation, maybe tell a sad story that he used to be the son of a single mom who was barely making ends meet trying to strike a chord with the woman... suddenly he's trying to get her to feel something for him using her situation and what he's done to gain selfishly.. you get my point, right?
    odd. This is manipulation, however it would never work on me (as a single mom) as I would refuse assistance in the first place. Or I would quantify the assistance in a very Te specific way and then outline how I would repay the favor. I would recognize the implied obligation inherent in any sort of offering of help and be aware.

    Would the above ENTP tactic work effectively on an Fe user?h

  9. #249
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    MBTI
    infj
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Posts
    2,460

    Default

    let's say that it is just a series of single objectives that culminates in new opportunities that may or may not be taken as they play out.

    ie maybe he recognizes that the person is feeling down and wants to pick the person up, lift spirits, etc. and many later it does remind him of a situation he felt once and he uses that to harmonize the situation and become more confidential, deeply communicative, etc. and let's say she enjoys the feeling and then realizes what a good time she is having. and let's say he notices the slight change in her demeanor as her awareness changes back on herself and how she is feeling and that she is surprised she is feeling this way and he starts probing to get a better reading on the situation. and this is the process of flirtation and her energy already so charged becomes useful in, ahem, different ways, and he decides to go for it.

    Ti may be thinking ahead or scheming a couple train-stops down the line or it might not. but this situation is just part of the potential of the situation. Ne and Ti and Fe types are really good at working it. Ni types would symbolize this situation and see how it connects to other situations and probably reject the situation on what it means, what it represents, how cheesy it is, how manipulative it seems externally, what its essence is, etc. tho enfjs are the masters of this far more than entps, who are second, and intps, who are third. 3w4s are the best of all when it comes to this game.

    Te is more mastermind manipulative, but it's easier to see coming from a mile away. Ti is much better at adjusting and building step-by-step situations on-the-fly. and the Fe is much more focused on harmonizing the feeling state of the other, creating an emotional objective with the other person's feeling state in mind.

  10. #250
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    8,470

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Happy Puppy View Post
    odd. This is manipulation, however it would never work on me (as a single mom) as I would refuse assistance in the first place. Or I would quantify the assistance in a very Te specific way and then outline how I would repay the favor. I would recognize the implied obligation inherent in any sort of offering of help and be aware.

    Would the above ENTP tactic work effectively on an Fe user?h
    I think an ENTP would be good at determining the appropriate tactic for each person. INFJ's would be good at the genuinely sincere approach (which I think actually makes them more successful with people). ENTP's at the appearance of sincerity in whatever form is required.

    I've noticed in working with people that I have a knack for figuring out what each one needs. Some people need encouragement and directness. Some people need you to treat them like a lion tamer. "Back! Back!" Some people need you to treat them like an angry father. Some like a son looking for guidance. Some like a supplicant. Some like a scoundrel.

    Set phasers to scan with a wide-band and detect where the secret lever is hidden. Then jiggle it and walk inside.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

Similar Threads

  1. [NT] INTP vs INTJ - who is more manipulative?
    By tcda in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 126
    Last Post: 05-11-2017, 08:57 AM
  2. [NT] Who are more "robotic": INTJs or INTPs?
    By Zarathustra in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 354
    Last Post: 12-06-2015, 12:38 AM
  3. [Jung] Who is more practical, SP or ST?
    By Into It in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 12-26-2009, 02:17 AM
  4. Who is more practical, SP or ST?
    By Into It in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 12-21-2009, 10:43 PM
  5. Who're more manipulative? Gay Squirrels or Jewish Monkeys
    By Nonsensical in forum The Fluff Zone
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 10-26-2009, 02:35 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO