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  1. #181
    Crazy Diamond Billy's Avatar
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    INFJs are massively manipulative. I had to help mt friend remove one from his company, the INFj he hired was making drama between everyone and playing everyone against one and other. But he always ended up with more money or the better positions. I saw his game and proved it to my friend who is the boss and he canned his ass.

  2. #182
    Senior Member Winds of Thor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beyondaurora View Post

    Okay, here we go...

    No, I did not miss the part where he said he wouldn't hurt anyone intentionally. Nor did I miss the words "values" and "ethics" in his description.

    However, I also seemed to catch the phrases "but she wants it, so it's cool", "I have the person in the palm of my hands", "I would never advise someone I cared about to do the wrong thing", "the advice I give is never harmful", etc., etc.

    For one, by definition you cannot "manipulate" someone into doing something they want.

    Secondly, am I the only one concerned with someone who thinks that they know what is right for another person and manipulates that person to carry out related decisions?! Even if he does have the incredible gift of knowing what's right for others (an admission that I find both scary and narcissistic), where are the ethics in that?

    The ethics are: It was known by both parties. That is why it was written in a humorous context, which you took as evil. Also why BMS felt okay putting the after the sentence, and supported it with the fact that "she likes it, so it's cool."

    If she likes it, then she obviously knows it, and if those ENTPs are anything like me, they would definitely know it. Probably would feel relieved somewhat that someone did part of the digging for them.

    So no one's forcing their opinion on anyone behind anyone's back. Both knew.

    Relax.
    "..And the eight and final rule: If this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight."
    'Men are meant to be with women. The rest is perversion and mental illness.'

  3. #183
    Senior Member Winds of Thor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogue View Post
    ok, I said you guys win. I drive people away. I get it. I just tried to be nice to you guys. Now who's gonna befriend me on this site. Nobody after hearing this... I never ever said anything bad about any of you. I drove your friendship away and you drove me off this site.

    I just thought you were nicer than your post sounded.

    At least you apologized and owned up to what you really said
    I'll befriend you. I like to spar. You couldn't hurt my feelings if you tried. So let's go!

    Plus who's gonna love you if no one else does?
    "..And the eight and final rule: If this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight."
    'Men are meant to be with women. The rest is perversion and mental illness.'

  4. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by Happy Puppy View Post
    I cant find the original quote from Evan
    Post #122.

  5. #185
    Senior Member Winds of Thor's Avatar
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    Everyone has manipulated. I'd imagine all here do and might not even know it.

    Do you own any household cleaning products? Like bathroom cleaner or WD-40 or Hairspray or Makeup?

    Well, since you do, you paid the companies when you purchased your product, your makeup, your bathroom cleaner, whatever. The companies set aside a portion of the product price for Legal fees.

    By purchasing your products, you have, paid teams of lawyers at those companies...To argue, to manipulate juries and others, against the effects these products have on the environment, or animals, or personal injuries stemming from use of your products.

    So you are manipulating people in courtrooms, by proxy, but still, by your purchase of these products.

    Didn't know you were so immoral did you?

    Relax. The content in this site on context to be expected, is Typology. The ONLY context which is amicably expected in the general sense. Keep to that and people will be more willing and share. Then you can learn from others and grow. Happy.
    "..And the eight and final rule: If this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight."
    'Men are meant to be with women. The rest is perversion and mental illness.'

  6. #186
    Systematic chaos Cenomite's Avatar
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    I've never thought myself or other ENTPs to be manipulative. I don't consider myself particularly gifted at manipulating other people in personal situations.

    I more consider myself a good deal maker, that can mess with what someone considers logically correct, rather than their emotions. I can really only do this well in a business/school/professional setting.
    The probability that I was procrastinating when I was typing this post:

    P(have big assignment due) = 0.6
    P(posting on TypoC) = 0.2
    P(having big assignment due | posting on TypoC) = 0.7

    P(posting on TypoC | having big assignment due) = .......


    Eh, I'll finish it later.

  7. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cenomite View Post
    I've never thought myself or other ENTPs to be manipulative. I don't consider myself particularly gifted at manipulating other people in personal situations.

    I more consider myself a good deal maker, that can mess with what someone considers logically correct, rather than their emotions. I can really only do this well in a business/school/professional setting.
    True, that..........what other people call 'manipulative' behavior on the part of ENTP's really isn't. We just have the unique ability to see people's underlying motives, future outcomes, and maneuver accordingly.

    In reality ENTP's are less the masters of manipulation than the masters of out maneuvering those who attempt to manipulate. We rarely engage in any form of 'manipulation' in a vacuum.

    But if we sense others are engaged in political manipulation, we are very fast to rise to the occasion, and usually manage to stay two or three moves ahead of the other person.

    A prime example of such is the ENTP ability to predict the actions of others we know are involved in trying to manipulate a situation........we can predict those actions before they take place, and set traps accordingly.
    No friend ever served me, and no enemy ever wronged me, whom I have not repaid in full." Lucius Cornelius Sulla

  8. #188
    Senior Member nynesneg's Avatar
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    So I'm curius... ENFJs are supposedly one of the most capable types to manipulate people.

    My point relating to this thread...
    If I want something, I'm good at seeing multiple perspectives. I present the side to the other person which most benefits them to get them to do what I want. They think I'm helping them get the best for them, when really they were just doing something annoying and I convinced them to do it differently.

    Is this considered manipulation? I don't consider it dishonest at all, it's just the means of least conflict to get what I need.

  9. #189
    Systematic chaos Cenomite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sgtmac_46 View Post
    True, that..........what other people call 'manipulative' behavior on the part of ENTP's really isn't. We just have the unique ability to see people's underlying motives, future outcomes, and maneuver accordingly.

    In reality ENTP's are less the masters of manipulation than the masters of out maneuvering those who attempt to manipulate. We rarely engage in any form of 'manipulation' in a vacuum.

    But if we sense others are engaged in political manipulation, we are very fast to rise to the occasion, and usually manage to stay two or three moves ahead of the other person.
    This is all true! Especially the first paragraph.

    It's easy for me to see what causes someone to make a certain decision, or what drives them, but I'm not too great at using that to make them do what I want. Even if I was, I'd feel like an ass if I did.

    I mostly just use that knowledge to help understand how I should talk to certain people; not necessarily to get what I want from them, but to have a better relationship in-general with them by avoiding annoying misunderstandings. In a work setting, I do admit that I use that info to make myself seem better, but I wouldn't really call that manipulation. I'll also use that info to my advantage if someone is trying to mess with me, obviously.
    The probability that I was procrastinating when I was typing this post:

    P(have big assignment due) = 0.6
    P(posting on TypoC) = 0.2
    P(having big assignment due | posting on TypoC) = 0.7

    P(posting on TypoC | having big assignment due) = .......


    Eh, I'll finish it later.

  10. #190
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    Manipulation is the tool of a coward who can't get what they want through honest means.

    They have to resort to tricking those who are either more intellectually or emotionally immature.

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