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  1. #171
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IDK123 View Post
    oh ok, gotcha. I always stayed away from using that tool because I saw that tool as a negative but it sounds like it can be as much a benefit too.
    That's kinda the big question in this thread.

    Is it manipulative if you try to change someone for their own good? (Because that benefits you too)

    Also, is it manipulative if you aren't conscious of it?

    I think the answer is yes to both of those questions.

  2. #172
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    Entps are not manipulative at all
    you're all so mean, We do have feelings too you know!!



    Ow what is that thing, a bullshit-o-meter, GOSH, it's GLOWING!

  3. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluemonday View Post
    Wow! This thread sucks on so many levels!
    This thread is awesome on many levels!

  4. #174
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    Entps are not manipulative at all
    you're all so mean, We do have feelings too you know!!



    Ow what is that thing, a bullshit-o-meter, GOSH, it's GLOWING!
    Feelings are the path to the dark side, my pseudo non-manipulative new friend
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  5. #175
    Arcesso pulli gingerios! Eldanen's Avatar
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    Perambulating Feces.

    Oh, what?

    I won't believe that I'm manipulative unless someone proves it to me! So there!

  6. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    Feelings are the path to the dark side, my pseudo non-manipulative new friend
    hurray, someone else has noticed it too.

  7. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    Hahahaha....

    I thought I was interpersonally retarded until I got an ENFJ girlfriend at 16 who showed me what I was capable of (ha, sounds hilarious when I say it). Then I realized I had been pretty good already.

    It's all about telling the truth. And staying silent strategically.

    And, making a good impression on everyone at all times, even if you don't care about them. Because it can come in handy later.

    Note: Not a very good way to live life, honestly...it's totally a compulsion. But I at least always win the loyalty game. I can get anyone on my side if I need them.

    Trust is built through being honest. And the other person believing you. The best way is to tell the truth, but selectively, because the other person will see that you're being genuine (which you are), so they'll trust you. Even the most "powerful" or "skilled" social visionaries know I tell the truth, because I do.

    Don't give anyone a reason not to like you. If you sense that they might start resenting you, call it out right then and explain yourself. Look flustered. Look like you care that they like you (which has to be genuine, even if you don't like them).

    Every word you say, every facial expression you make, all of that shit...those are all "moves" in the social game. They should all be profit-maximizing in terms of generating positive feeling towards you (with different weights for different people's feelings, based on how important they are to your long-term strategy).

    Strategic aside: it's smart to disagree with people, too, or else they'll suspect you. So you gotta get in little arguments at strategic times -- times when even if you piss people off, it won't matter much in the long term. You don't want to come off as someone who will blindly agree. Also, say your opinions that differ from the norm as long as they aren't too threatening to those around you at the time. And you can't lie. You have to be willing to cause short-term discomfort to those around you, because it's better for your image in the long run.

    Also, you have to take stands against certain people -- you have to be fair-minded. You should visibly regret the fact that you have negative sentiments towards someone, but hold your ground against people that have broken a moral code. You don't want to look weak-willed, because then people will know they can walk all over you.

    The most important part, though, is -- DO NOT LIE unless you honestly have no other choice. It's basically cheating, and people WILL notice if you make a habit of it. Every emotion you show has to be genuine. You can and should make sure to present them overtly if they're profit-maximizing, and you should downplay them if not.


    Anyway, this is not what I recommend, because the pressure you start to feel becomes incredible. But one thing it does do is win you every loyalty battle you get into. My ENTP ex (one of the most manipulative people I've ever met, probably) and I had the same group of friends, all of whom took "my side" after the breakup (even more strongly than I was expecting, or even wanted). I didn't even ask. Even the ones that started out as her friend ended up as mine.

    The difference between her strategy and mine is that she's much more focused on the short term. She's way better with strangers than I am. And sometimes she's better in relationships for the first month or two. But she always ends up sacrificing long-term for short-term.


    Anyways, that's why I'm kinda leaning towards INFJs being more manipulative than ENTPs (it's basically long-run manipulation vs. short-term). Even the INFJs I know that don't consciously think this way still basically use this strategy, although they'd probably argue with me and play defense if I said so. No point in beating around the bush, though.

    I can literally say all of this stuff to any of my friends and the strategy still works perfectly. It's pretty much unbeatable in the long-run.


    I know you were probably joking when you asked, but I got inspired.


    In my experience, nearly all INFJs do this whether they realize it or not. This can kinda backfire on your psyche b/c now you go around doubting and mistrusting everything they do.

  8. #178
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    I cant find the original quote from Evan above but on so many levels I find it horrific.

    Now I have to apologize as that is my Fi gut response and I know it will sound offensive. I am watching the Fe mask/indirect approach fuck over my company right now. The indirectness is very destructive and the games are utterly useless and waste a lot of time and energy.

    What I see is that in a Te, Fi heavy crowd, Fe gets made excluded pretty quickly. It is ineffective and people can "feel" the fact that it is not behaving authentically. Even my INTPs are somewhat wary of INFJs. We can see through it.

    We can tell when the answer you give is hiding what you are really thinking-the answer is too "poised" and incomplete.

  9. #179
    Senior Member Winds of Thor's Avatar
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    .
    "..And the eight and final rule: If this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight."
    'Men are meant to be with women. The rest is perversion and mental illness.'

  10. #180
    Senior Member Winds of Thor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ByMySword View Post
    Are you serious?

    I can't believe so many of you have read so much into this. Who said I wasn't being myself? Who said I was tricking people into liking me? I honestly don't get it.

    If I took out the thing about the girls, none of you would have anything to say.

    Don't get mad because your crazy antics drove me away Rogue. I was never cruel to you.
    I hate to say it, but it's combative NFPs..They will context jump, hoping you didn't notice. Or they don't pick up on the subtle differences in contexts.

    Some go straight for the emotional jugular, without keeping in mind the difference in subject. Your actions and your intentions were layed out in front, as was honest and what would be more delightful to take a look at on an MBTI website? Frustrating.

    If this were a site for everyone to crack on others, then I'd say NFPs: fair

    You showed your thoughts and actions which is entirely aligned with the questions and context of this thread. Good job.
    "..And the eight and final rule: If this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight."
    'Men are meant to be with women. The rest is perversion and mental illness.'

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