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  1. #31
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by quietgirl View Post
    Hmm. Is it possible you were an extravert the entire time and due to extenuating circumstances or your environment in the past, acted like an introvert? ....
    Yeah I've considered that. It could easily be the case. But it seems to me that the introverted behaviour that I displayed through most of my life up to about 5 years ago, because it was enforced over such a long period of time, became part of who I am. So whether or not I was an E before, now that I definately am, I still need quite a bit of time to myself and I'm not THAT fussed about people. I like human company well enough and I'm perfectly confident and happy in large groups, even of strangers, but I always need my down time alone.

    I think part of the misunderstanding is where people too often equate extraversion with 'liking and being good with people', when that's more a secondary effect of it. It's F types that the whole 'people' stuff comes naturally with, while extraverted Thinkers don't tend to be as much people-people, specially ENT's.
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  2. #32
    Senior Member Blackwater's Avatar
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    i agree with maverick.

    even big five neo-pir which has been scientifically validated at "proven" to be constant with regards to results is in wildly random until after the testees have passed 30 years of age. - that isn't really congruent with the postulate that type is constant. imo its obvious that people want type to be constant for their own peace of mind rather than because reality is indicative of it.

    even jung said that type is nothing constant.

    but to answer the OP; it's far more likely that you were an INFP disguised as an INFJ
    best collection of philosopher typings online

    http://www.celebritytypes.com/philosophers/

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    I had to try (You will be sucked in... )

    Can I say something even stupider to get your to correct me? Will that get you?
    Argh, clever INTP's!



    Quote Originally Posted by Blackwater View Post
    i agree with maverick.

    even big five neo-pir which has been scientifically validated at "proven" to be constant with regards to results is in wildly random until after the testees have passed 30 years of age. - that isn't really congruent with the postulate that type is constant. imo its obvious that people want type to be constant for their own peace of mind rather than because reality is indicative of it.

    even jung said that type is nothing constant.

    but to answer the OP; it's far more likely that you were an INFP disguised as an INFJ
    Definitely agree.

  4. #34
    filling some space UnitOfPopulation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick View Post
    Argh, clever INTP's!

    Definitely agree.
    I'll add my voice to the chore of those who agree.

    Measurement error is something that is frequently handled in engineering and statistical sciences. The calculations are formed from seemingly mathematical constructions, but it ends up with questions in language, philosophy and matters of decision.

    You can make a model that observed = real + observation error.

    Ok, that is good. Now you notice a number 7. Is it a real 7 with no error? A real 8 with -1 error? You can guess by assuming the kind of distribution in both the error and the real thing, and then you can nail down averages and such.

    So what's with type? You can DEFINE the type as the constant part and everything else as error. BUt being definition, not something that we found out, this "type constancy by definition" does not help to decide what a person's type actually is: the one tested when young, or the one tested when older, should the two of them be different.

    It's more useful to study the forces to keep one's type the same and those making it change. Test error sources should be found out, too: inadequate self-analysis, bias, wishful thinking, etc.

    When most important sources of error are taken care of, I believe the type constancy to be a useful concept, and reality too, to some extent. Character development, I believe, should be accurately reflected in the test results, even if that would mean the end of type constancy in the strictest sense.

  5. #35
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    On a more serious note, it is important to note that most of these tests do eventually become pretty reliable. Likewise, the real question is what is being measured... and how much that changes. Up to age 20, the body is still forming all sorts of things... hormonal changes, everything. Brains don't stop truly forming till after 25 in the first place... But there is a degree of correlation that remains despite all this - weak at first but stronger as time goes on.

    So the whole thing is a mixed bag but it's important to note that behavioural changes can be seen in different lights... everything from the normal growing up to hormonal imbalances... and the various other erratic factors. The point being that many of these don't affect the underlying structure - the baseline - of the mind. We just lack a good way to measure it properly... that makes the test bad, yes, but doesn't really mean our personality changes - except if you define it by the test itself.

  6. #36
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    In MBTI, J/P are not traits in themselves, it describes whether you extrovert a perceiving function (S or N) or a judging function (T or F).

    INFP = Fi + Ne
    INFJ = Ni + Fe

    So shifting from J to P means that your primary and secondary functions are also different -- you have a completely different basis for your personality.

    So usually it means, if you shifted to a P mode now and feel the INFP is better a description, you were forced to find closure on things while younger that you would have rather left open-ended. Environment, family, certain occupations/school, all of these things impact our ability and desire for closure...
    You are really good at explaining stuff in a way that makes sense to me!

  7. #37
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    ...Most personality can't be changed, in theory, because it is genetic and biological (ie: biology, not chemical). ...
    I agree that some influence for type is in our DNA. I have a theory that that is where stereotypes come from - why whole nations of people have been categorized by a certain trait, like thrifty Scotsmen, for example.

  8. #38
    Senior Member tovlo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cindyrella View Post
    Anyway, is it really possible to go from a J to a P?
    I tend to flip between INFP and INFJ when taking on-line MBTI tests. I don't think my actual core preferences or characteristics change though. I think my natural preferences are one thing and then what my situation requires of me is another. I accept that I have use of all eight functions. Depending on the circumstances I find myself in I may have to draw on any of them to cope effectively. Situational development of less preferred functions might affect my self-perception, and as a result the way I self-report on a test, but I now tend to think I have always used most naturally and with the least energy expenditure the infj functions.
    "We don't see things as they are,
    we see things as we are."
    ...Anais Nin

  9. #39
    Senior Member theshadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    I've heard of several INFP's mistyped as INFJ's and vice versa. I think certain tests have a weakness for distinguishing between the J and P for INF's.
    There seem to be A whole lot of us.

    My personal difficulty is seeing myself as is. I spent years trying to be P... not because of mbti stuff. though. So I, to myself atl leest, look very much like an infp. that was until. I dated an infp. jk You guys are cute. Recently Ive been working on being a more congruent and whole person. again not according to type. but anyway. If I Spend tons of time Introverting J. bad things start to happen. Its hard for me to focus. my remedy? ironicly I have found that going around and organizing things. or accomplishing some task is enough to un paralyze myself and move on.

  10. #40
    Senior Member Eileen's Avatar
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    I tend to believe that types don't change, and particularly that the J/P doesn't change (because that would mean, as Tayshaun pointed out, that you totally switch around the cognitive processes). However, I have found that I resemble a stereotypical "P" a lot of the time. INFJs and INFPs can look a lot alike when it comes to spatial organization and "vision." My desk is a DISASTER, and not even really a disaster where I know where everything is. However, I am pretty organized about time and always have some kind of general outline in mind. I just pick what I need to be anal about and what I can loosey-goose.
    INFJ

    "I can never be what I ought to be until you are what you ought to be. You can never be what you ought to be until I am what I ought to be. This is the interrelated structure of reality." -Martin Luther King, Jr.

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