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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Talk to ptgatsby about FFM and the factors that correspond to MBTI (especially E/I). I have not really seen E/I change that much at all from early childhood. We simply see coping factors change, and/or ability to deal with situations that are not the optimum one. (i.e., introverts learn how to gauge their energy reserves or develop socializing skills to offset their anxiety, extroverts learn to pace themselves and also give space to introverts to participate, etc.)
    Without going into the details, there is a review that indicates that personality as measured by the Big 5 tends to be somewhat consistent. But the fact that it tends to be consistent does not mean that it is impossible for it to change.

    What data? (I don't necessarily disagree, I am just curious to know if you had any specific sources in mind, or if this is the culmination of your personal experiences throughout life, or what exactly.)
    There are a number of articles on this that you can find from google scholar.

    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby
    Most personality can't be changed, in theory, because it is genetic and biological (ie: biology, not chemical).
    This is debatable... (without wanting to go in a nature vs. nurture debate, bored to death of it).

  2. #22
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick View Post
    This is debatable... (without wanting to go in a nature vs. nurture debate, bored to death of it).
    There are tons of influences that can change things... the body is always changing. One could say that personality changes under stress, for example, where behaviour becomes eratic. Personality, virtually by definition, is the normal state of the person - the return to the norm. It is a reduction of behaviours/emotions/etc that the person has. Those shouldn't change significantly.

    It isn't a debate over nature vs nurture. If the brain forms at a young age and the traits being measured are formed with it, change will be extremely difficult short of trauma. Once we reach maturation and assuming the biological structures define the trait consistently, behaviours and such aren't going to change dramatically, in a normal state of mind.

    By this point most of the environmental influences have run their course, as have genetics. What change is left is fairly small.

  3. #23
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    When my dad died a while back I had to take charge of his estate as sole executor. I hadn't been expecting it one bit. Prior to this I was accustomed to running things and being in charge, having run my own businesses since I left school. But the difference was that in the business ventures, I've had a couple of ENTJ's as partners, and we've made a killer team. While with my dad's stuff, it was all down to me - just me alone.

    Because it happened during the summer, both my ENTJ's were away on vacations, so I didn't have them to turn to. My Te underwent a massive, intensive crash course as relatives from all over the world were questioning me, hassling me, a funeral had to be arranged, there was dispute over the manner of disposing of the body, there was no will and a free-for-all was becoming likely, which I had to stop somehow and make a lot of very tough decisions, very quickly, whilst organising all the paperwork/legal side of things. My usual nature is to be quite trusting, but as relatives who began by being very supportive became increasingly like a pack of vultures, I became more suspicious and untrusting, and tended to look within myself for answers rather than the world of external 'cues', as is my usual way. In this way, Ni and Te got a considerable workout.

    I took an MBTI test after it was all over (mostly) and came out ENTJ. I took another - ENTJ again. I left it a month and took them again - this time, one ENTJ with only slight J preference and one ENTP with only slight P preference.

    Whether this means I've become ENTJ, or just am still ENTP but with unusually developed Ni and Te for my type, I don't know. But I'd suggest that if it were possible to do this one way, from P to J, I wouldn't be surprised if there were situations that might bring out the Ne and Ti in an ENTJ and 'change' him from J to P.
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

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  4. #24

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    i read somewhere that even some of the best tests are only right 90% of the time. Isn't it more likely then that it was my fault in the testing process since I am clearly not ENFJ and never really have been?

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    It isn't a debate over nature vs nurture. If the brain forms at a young age and the traits being measured are formed with it, change will be extremely difficult short of trauma. Once we reach maturation and assuming the biological structures define the trait consistently, behaviours and such aren't going to change dramatically, in a normal state of mind.


    ptgatsby Maverick

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    Whether this means I've become ENTJ, or just am still ENTP but with unusually developed Ni and Te for my type, I don't know. But I'd suggest that if it were possible to do this one way, from P to J, I wouldn't be surprised if there were situations that might bring out the Ne and Ti in an ENTJ and 'change' him from J to P.
    I'd say it's situational. When my cognitive functions were tested, I had excellant use of Ni, Fe, Ti, and Ne. The first three I can see... but Ne? It's my fifth function. Provided, I do test almost even on the F/T scale, but that wouldn't bring out Ne either (as it would make me an INTJ - and I definitely don't use Te well). Then I started thinking about other factors in my life and realized that I was in the middle of a semester and had been utterly consumed by my Physics major (& Biology minor) - and I was taking an Engineering class to see if it would be a good career fit. This probably also contributed to the excellant use of Ti - my tertiary function. Now that I am no longer in the middle of a Physics major (and realized that I can't really hack it in Engineering), my type confusion has died down a bit - as has my use of Ne, I assume. The INFJ in me is now finishing up a nursing degree & considering the MCATs so I can use my hard science background to help people.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by quietgirl View Post
    I'd say it's situational. ...
    Agreed. But what happens when the 'situation' that these things develop in response to, doesn't end or carries on for years? Do these 'new' traits become habitual to the point of ingraining themselves into the personality, thereby changing type? I know that in my past I was very, very introverted, whilst now I couldn't be more extraverted if I tried! The change came about via changes in my circumstances, to which I initially responded in an artificial, deliberate manner, wanting to revert to my 'natural' state as an introvert all the time, to get things over with. But things never did change back, and now I wouldn't want them to - I adjusted to my new behaviour, came to like it and it became authentically 'me', as opposed to something I just put on when necessary.
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
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  8. #28
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    Hmm. Is it possible you were an extravert the entire time and due to extenuating circumstances or your environment in the past, acted like an introvert? My mother, an ESTP, comes off rather introverted when we're at home. However in a social setting & whenever she's around people in general, she lights up and completely thrives! Growing up, I never really saw her in that setting much as she was a single mother and spent the majority of her time with her young children & I always assumed she was introverted like me. Also, both my brother and I are introverted - and very much so - so I am guessing she had to adapt to our needs a bit. It took until my brother and I were more independent of her and she started having a social life again for me to really notice the extraversion.

  9. #29
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick View Post


    ptgatsby Maverick
    I had to try (You will be sucked in... )

    Can I say something even stupider to get your to correct me? Will that get you?

  10. #30
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    I once tested as INTP, but it didn't fit me nearly as well as INFP. With INTP it had a few things that fit, but a few things that were so off it was almost offensive to my identity. I didn't change though, I was INFP all along. I think it might have been my mood, and I think I might have misinterpreted some of the questions, but whatever happened, it didn't fit as well as INFP.

    I personally think that you pretty much are what you are, and there isn't a whole lot you could do to change it.

    I have a very strong P preference, and its terrible for school. I'm unorganized and I go nuts in such a structured environment. I also get criticized for being unrealistic and not looking at things realistically when having a discussion. I guess people don't realize that I'm considering everything from a hypoethical point of view, not arealistic prediction of some kind. I don't try to change that though, and I don't try to fake the J, I just try to do the best I can with what I am as a person.

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