[MBTI General] NJs and Ps

[Atomic Fiend]

ENPs can be too direct sometimes.

 

[Nocapszy]

P is for pretense

 

[colmena]

Those who learn from interpretation dislike another's direct approach.

To love and learn.

 

[mlittrell]

I've noted when speaking with Ps they are often indirect and passive-aggressive. Instead of asking for information they want, they tend phish and phish and phish for it. When they want to tell you something that may potentially cause conflict, they often drop a series of clues until you "get it." I love Ps but get annoyed, because I think they are looking for me take care of their unstated and indirect needs. I hate to be burdened by others in this manner.

i do this because i figure i can "phish" out some other information that may or may not be related. if im searching for an answer directly, i wanna know all other possibilities involved.
also i wouldn't limit this to perceivers. some of the most passive aggressive people i know are Js. the most passive aggressive person i actually know is an INFJ.

 

[booyalab]

I've noted when speaking with Ps they are often indirect and passive-aggressive. Instead of asking for information they want, they tend phish and phish and phish for it. When they want to tell you something that may potentially cause conflict, they often drop a series of clues until you "get it." I love Ps but get annoyed, because I think they are looking for me take care of their unstated and indirect needs. I hate to be burdened by others in this manner.

I don't think I'm indirect or conflict avoidant at all, but I have had strong Js suggest I may be because they tend to project their extremely black and white way of thinking onto everyone else. So if I qualify statements, use compound sentences, or just present thoughts in a more complicated way than they have the patience for (with some people, that seems to be anything more nuanced than "I like cheese. I want cheese") then I'm being roundabout or even deceptive. I'm not saying all, or most, Js are like this, but keep in mind that flaws you perceive in people different from you might just be the old J trap of leaping to conclusions on painfully little evidence.

 

[cafe]

thread derailment = P for passive-aggressive, no?

By this forum's standards, this doesn't really count as a thread derail, we just aren't that rigid. And almost any thread like this is going to have members of the targeted type coming in and defending themselves and/or giving the flip side. It's possible you are projecting motives onto others that aren't actually there. Maybe some P types fish, hint, and become passive-aggressive but it's far from universal or exclusive to Ps.

 

[felt up]

i do this because i figure i can "phish" out some other information that may or may not be related. if im searching for an answer directly, i wanna know all other possibilities involved.
also i wouldn't limit this to perceivers. some of the most passive aggressive people i know are Js. the most passive aggressive person i actually know is an INFJ.

Thanks for a direct answer mittrell. I can tell you I can be the queen of passive-aggression with ENFPs when they've ALREADY demonstrated a heaping pile of passive-aggression and it's not getting through to them that I despise it as a form of communication. What this covert behavior says to me as an INFJ, is that 'I'm smarter than you, I'm so clever that I'm going to somehow obtain information from you and you won't even know it.' While I think this strategy may work with other types, it's INSULTING to me.

 

[felt up]

I don't think I'm indirect or conflict avoidant at all, but I have had strong Js suggest I may be because they tend to project their extremely black and white way of thinking onto everyone else. So if I qualify statements, use compound sentences, or just present thoughts in a more complicated way than they have the patience for (with some people, that seems to be anything more nuanced than "I like cheese. I want cheese") then I'm being roundabout or even deceptive. I'm not saying all, or most, Js are like this, but keep in mind that flaws you perceive in people different from you might just be the old J trap of leaping to conclusions on painfully little evidence.

Congrats booyalab. I guess this is your roundabout way of insulting me as you deceive me with your complex, compound sentences. How brilliant!

 

[Night]

Out of personal curiosity, felt up, how did you anticipate people would respond to your stated premise?

 

[sakuraba]

I've noted when speaking with Ps they are often indirect and passive-aggressive.

I am calling BS on this.

SJ's are the ones who do the whole "smile in your face, talk about you behind you back" ordeal.

I am P. I am very direct, never passive aggressive.

 

[felt up]

As honestly as I asked the question, Night. I can say this thread has turned into a wealth of useful information.

 

[Night]

I am calling BS on this.

SJ's are the ones who do the whole "smile in your face, talk about you behind you back" ordeal.

I am P. I am very direct, never passive aggressive.

Although the irony of using a stereotype to combat a stereotype is certainly not lost on me, I again restate my point that no one type holds lease on universal behavioral traits -- positive or negative.

The system offers a sampled template. The individual is far more diverse than a metric like Typology can encapsulate.

As honestly as I asked the question, Night. I can say this thread has turned into a wealth of useful information.

Then it seems like the exercise was a useful probe into the human social response mechanism to hostile perspective.

I hope everyone gained something.

 

[Totenkindly]

thread derailment = P for passive-aggressive, no?

So you're really believing that?

I actually thought you were joking at first, because it was so NOT what I was doing. (Hmm, where's that "EPIC FAIL" graphic when I need it?)

Or maybe your sense of humor actually IS far more dry than mine?

Thanks for a direct answer mittrell. I can tell you I can be the queen of passive-aggression with ENFPs when they've ALREADY demonstrated a heaping pile of passive-aggression and it's not getting through to them that I despise it as a form of communication. What this covert behavior says to me as an INFJ, is that 'I'm smarter than you, I'm so clever that I'm going to somehow obtain information from you and you won't even know it.' While I think this strategy may work with other types, it's INSULTING to me.

Okay, I think I'm done here.
Enjoy your thread.

 

[Kestrel]

Hum, I think alot of the qualities here being discussed here don't even apply to the P vs J conflict.

Passive aggression is not exactly a P exclusive trait.

Jumping to conclusions is not exactly a J exclusive trait.

I don't think that I've taken anything of value from this thread.

 

[Anja]

All I can see is that you are exceptionally disturbed by other people's behavior, Felt Up. Not a very good place to be if you would like some peace of mind. Nobody is going to alter an unhealthy communication style to ease your discomfort.

Sounds like you'd like to spread your discontent far and wide. . .

I'll pass on sampling the anger and suggest you learn how to deal with it.

 

[Anja]

I'll go one better than that and make an assumption that you are not practicing indirect communication by not responding.

I'd encourage you to return when you have time and give an effort to the understanding of the roots of your discomfort.

I know that there are plenty of folks around here quick to jump in and be helpful. Perhaps you don't realize how hostile you sound to others?

Edit: Often what bothers us most in others is something which needs more work on our own end. I notice this in myself sometimes. Sometimes it's a mannerism of the family I've come from.

 

[Haphazard]

From what I've noticed the most passive-aggressive types tend to be the 'behind the scenes' types -- INFP, INTP, ISFP, ISFJ. Not that all of them are always passive-aggressive all the time, or that they're the only ones, but there's definitely a trend.

The reason it happens is usually because of a 'I have a problem with X but I can't say anything about it' environment. So, you know, places like work, school, and anyplace heirarchial, are the most likely places for anybody to come off as passive-aggressive. But, if you're getting a lot of this in a personal environment, there might be the factor that you're putting too much pressure on them, causing them to be too intimidated to say anything.

 

[pippi]

Actually Jennifer...your response was exactly the kind of rationalizing avoidance I expected. Thanks!

Rationalizing avoidance? Interesting, I'm an NJ and what I got from Jennifer's post was that P's like to explore options and that may appear passive aggressive from the standpoint of a J type who wants things decided right now. But that's just me stating the obvious (something NJs do that is probably annoying to P's actually ).

 

[lorkan]

From what I've noticed the most passive-aggressive types tend to be the 'behind the scenes' types -- INFP, INTP, ISFP, ISFJ. Not that all of them are always passive-aggressive all the time, or that they're the only ones, but there's definitely a trend.

The reason it happens is usually because of a 'I have a problem with X but I can't say anything about it' environment. So, you know, places like work, school, and anyplace heirarchial, are the most likely places for anybody to come off as passive-aggressive. But, if you're getting a lot of this in a personal environment, there might be the factor that you're putting too much pressure on them, causing them to be too intimidated to say anything.

Seems correct in my experiences. I almost always had a problem to get straight answers from IxxP's, except from ISTP's. The thing is, and my ISTP-friend understands this, that he can give me a answer to keep me sane and I am very open to recieving a change or a new answer if a better comes up. It's totally ok to not have figure everything out. But for god sake, JUST GIVE ME ANSWERS!

EDIT: Yes I was thinking about people in my personal life when I wrote this.

 

[mlittrell]

Thanks for a direct answer mittrell. I can tell you I can be the queen of passive-aggression with ENFPs when they've ALREADY demonstrated a heaping pile of passive-aggression and it's not getting through to them that I despise it as a form of communication. What this covert behavior says to me as an INFJ, is that 'I'm smarter than you, I'm so clever that I'm going to somehow obtain information from you and you won't even know it.' While I think this strategy may work with other types, it's INSULTING to me.

that is completely understandable. if i really need info fast i act directly as anyone should. if i dont need it ill generally get there, but not in a passive aggressive way. ill just kinda flesh everything out so i can get the big picture.