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Thread: NJs and Ps

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    You might see that more in FP, as they're trying to avoid hurting feelings by saying something overtly -- I think TP is more blunt in the end about it, it's more just a desire to not commit to a strategy until they feel you out.

    I think you should understand how annoying it is from our side when you NJ types think we're trying to play you for nefarious reasons and not understanding that partly it's to avoid pressuring YOU to a course of action you might not like, because we know how hard it is for you to say no if you feel socially responsible.

    I always found it annoying when INFJs insisted on fixing something I didn't want them to fix, or when they take charge when all I wanted to do was share something with them. The NJ need for closure can be very invasive sometimes to a P looking for the "best" answer.

    No offense meant, I don't know you, but it has definitely been a pattern I've experienced. Does any of that ring a bell on your end, or are you seeing something else as well?

    (And sorry this is so blunt -- I thought I was on INTPc! Then again, why should I soften it? We can be upfront here, can't we?)

    I do appreciate bluntness, so don't be afraid. From my perspective Jennifer, NTPs are just as bad. Just because you can rationalize why you aren't, doesn't mean that you're not!

    About INFJs fixing on some aspect of another...um yeah, I do this, because sometimes I feel more acquainted with someone's missing piece. I feel I do have the last puzzle piece and I want to put it in place, because I think it will make them complete and whole.

    And?

    I noticed you turned your statement around to focus on INFJs when this thread is about Ps, and P-ish tendencies of passive-aggression, phishing, indirectness, manipulation, not being able to face or confront conflict, cowardliness, and therefore thrusting the responsibility of what they want or what they can't confront onto a NJ like me.

    Actually Jennifer...your response was exactly the kind of rationalizing avoidance I expected. Thanks!

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by lorkan View Post
    Me, my father (INTP), my sisters boyfriend (INFP) and the rest of the family decorated my sisters and the boyfriends furnituers in their new appartment sometime ago. We all went nuts at their P-ness and they themselves went nuts at the rest of us who didnt accept their perfect scheme of how the furnitures should have been decorated. The problem was though that they never told anyone how they wanted them to be. They didn't say anything! I think it might help if they would be honest instead and say that they really didn't have a plan and it was just about trial&error. If they would be honest I wouldn't be so angry at them for deliberatly trying to confuse me all the time.
    Thanks lorkan. I forgot to add dishonesty and confusion.

  3. #13
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by felt up View Post
    I noticed you turned your statement around to focus on INFJs when this thread is about Ps...
    I think she was just trying to balance the thread out, in case it became unbalanced.
    You can't spell "justice" without ISTJ.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    You might see that more in FP, as they're trying to avoid hurting feelings by saying something overtly -- I think TP is more blunt in the end about it, it's more just a desire to not commit to a strategy until they feel you out.
    Interesting that you mention this; I was going to suggest it myself, but I was afraid I might be reading too much into it.

    Your point is my secondary reason for asking outright what they want me to do: if they don't want me to do anything, better make that clear before I start trying to "help". I've finally got it through my thick skull that when Lee "preaches" to me, he's merely rehersing his thoughts to make sure they dovetail correctly--not trying to convince me to take a particular course of action.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    Jennifer, I think you need to be more direct and tell us how you really feel so we can work on your coming to some kind of resolution on this issue. I mean, how do you expect to get anything done if you don't make up your mind??
    eeep!
    i'm such a fluffer.

    *slithers away*

    Quote Originally Posted by felt up View Post
    I do appreciate bluntness, so don't be afraid. From my perspective Jennifer, NTPs are just as bad. Just because you can rationalize why you aren't, doesn't mean that you're not!
    You're so right: It just suggests a possibility you did not seem to be aware of. But we didn't show which possibility actually overlays your specific experience.

    About INFJs fixing on some aspect of another...um yeah, I do this, because sometimes I feel more acquainted with someone's missing piece. I feel I do have the last puzzle piece and I want to put it in place, because I think it will make them complete and whole.
    And on my end, I'm thinking, "OUCH, you crazy nut, get that d*mn puzzle piece out of my EYE!"

    I noticed you turned your statement around to focus on INFJs when this thread is about Ps, and P-ish tendencies of passive-aggression, phishing, indirectness, manipulation, not being able to face or confront conflict, cowardliness, and therefore thrusting the responsibility of what they want or what they can't confront onto a NJ like me.
    Hmm. I'm trying to decide whether I should be offended.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cimarron View Post
    I think she was just trying to balance the thread out, in case it became unbalanced.
    In any case, at least the ISTJ got it.

    Quote Originally Posted by faith View Post
    Your point is my secondary reason for asking outright what they want me to do: if they don't want me to do anything, better make that clear before I start trying to "help".
    I think communication is good, I've had to learn how to communicate more clearly too just to avoid the same sort of pitfalls.

    I've finally got it through my thick skull that when Lee "preaches" to me, he's merely rehearsing his thoughts to make sure they dovetail correctly--not trying to convince me to take a particular course of action.
    Yes... and I still am amazed at sometimes how strongly or emphatically I say things -- while really not meaning to suggest I'm committed to that particular statement and am just looking for pushbacks or clarifications.
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    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    eeep!
    i'm such a fluffer.

    *slithers away*
    You know I'm teasing you, right?

    In my experience, the INTPs aren't hinting about anything. They just want to be left alone.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    You know I'm teasing you, right?
    lol... yes.

    I keep getting that from NFs.
    They're always afraid my dry response means I took something seriously.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  8. #18
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    thread derailment = P for passive-aggressive, no?

  9. #19
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    Not to be a pill, but the notion of attaching negative traits to a specific type arrangement seems steeped in self-conscious projection.

    I could just as easily offer the statement that the NJ = passive-aggressive behavior on the basis that overly-linear topic adherence snuffs out oppositional perspectives that fall outside the (negotiable/subjective) guidelines of the OP.

    Does this necessarily suggest that my opinion holds any more validity than the counterpoint? No.

    Does this mean that my offered criticism holds firm to the tangential stream of thought offered by the OP? No.

    At any rate, I think you're debating a far more specific personal relationship that likely falls outside the scope of our collective forum vision, felt up. You appear to be grinding an axe against NPs by singularly needling only negative qualities that you've personally encountered -- either online or off.

  10. #20
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    Instead of wondering why "they" do it, Felt up, and feeling frustrated, a more enlightening experience would be to ask yourself why you have a problem handling it.
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

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